EventHorizon1984 Blog Log

"Come to think of it", eBay Lifted the Heineken Advertising Slogan

"Come to think of it", eBay Lifted the Heineken Advertising Slogan
2 November 2009
EventHorizon1984

It's been a long time since we've heard the phrase "Come to think of it".  Not the "new" eBay ads flooding the market with "Come to think of it, eBay."  But the Heineken slogan noted by Lucious Van Der Kreig on Auctionbytes."

"Come to think of it,
I'll have a Heineken."

Founded in 1864 by Gerard Adriaan Heineken, Heineken is "Europe's largest brewery."

Perhaps ironically you can find this 1986 color advertisement, "COME TO THINK OF IT ~ I'LL HAVE A HEINEKEN! 1986 AD" for sale by seller Woods_Elf on eBay.

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"If there is something to steal, I steal it."
Pablo Picasso

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Addendum
4 November 2009

A little extra digging turned up this gem.

ADVERTISING; SSC&B Campaign For Heineken to Begin
The New York Times
Philip H. Dougherty
May 26, 1981

"The first ad campaign for Heineken beer from SSC&B will begin to run in magazines next month. The ads will be big pictures of frosty, beaded bottles and glasses of the No. 1-selling import with the simple quote in smallish type, ''Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken,''.

The rest of the very very short article states the initial advertising budget was $12 million.  Adjusted for inflation that would be about $28 million now.

One wonders how much eBay spent to copy an existing successful advertisement.

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Addendum
6 November 2009

Yes, at this point we're merely having fun.  After all eBay and it's compensated representatives are now spinning "Come to think of it" is a common idiom and essentially free for the taking.

Anyone know the name Mal MacDougall?

Mal MacDougall On the Spot
Adweek
Deanna Zammit
October 6 2003

"Along the way he introduced Diet Coke with the tag, "Just for the taste of it," and coined Heineken's "Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken."

Here's to you Mr. Mal "Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken" MacDougall.

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"I'm never surprised when the gods of advertising remind me once again that there is nothing permanent in the business but change."
Mal MacDougall

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Backstabbing 101 - Buy.com and Amazon Halloween Slicing of eBay?

Backstabbing 101 - Buy.com and Amazon Halloween Slicing of eBay?
30 October 2009
EventHorizon1984

With Buy.com an eBay partner, one might believe there is absolute loyalty extruding from Buy.com toward eBay.  Total absolute support of eBay owned PayPal by Buy.com on it's site, being one show of a tight partnership.

On the other hand tomorrow is Halloween.  Cue slasher background music.

Buy.com teams with Amazon in taking online payments

Buy.com on Thursday began offering “Checkout by Amazon” and “Amazon PayPhrase” that allows its customers use their Amazon accounts to pay bills.

Looks like a case of hurting the one you love.

Or is that Money Conquers All?

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"You traitorous, disloyal, you stab me in the back the first chance you get?"
James T. Kirk, Star Trek

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Whatever Happened To ... 661henryglen and General Motors (yourgmdealer) eBay?

Whatever Happened To ... 661henryglen and General Motors (yourgmdealer) eBay?
3 September 2009
EventHorizon1984

By now you're seen the joint General Motors (GM) and eBay joint communique, "eBay Motors and General Motors Extend California 'Click and Buy' Promotion Through September', trumpeting their success.

As they put it:

• "Since the beginning of the program through August 30, shoppers visited dealers’ virtual showroom sites more than 1 million times and logged more than 1.4 million searches of GM inventory. In addition, nearly 4,000 new car buyers entered into negotiations online, over the phone and in person"

However if you're the type that examines the hype and have a few questions, you may have spotted these articles:

• EBay Issues A Press Release Update About Their Innovative Relationship With GM
• TheBrewsNews.com - "So, let me get this straight… eBay put out a press release saying that a 57.1% feedback seller who has less than a handful of items that sold on the platform in a month, out of tens of thousands of listings, is part of a “successful” eBay experiment because the seller was able to generate almost 4,000 leads to conduct business outside of eBay.   I guess the term “innovative relationship” is probably an accurate description for the eBay-GM partnership.  The innovative relationship with GM does seem to fit in quite nicely with eBay’s whole disruptive innovation theme they currently have going on.  And, as Rob Chesney says, it is what eBay does best."

• GM + eBay = Crash & Burn
• DiamondHaus.com - "Doing a search of GM’s completed listings currently yields over 39000 listings for the past two weeks.  Going over the first five pages of 200 listings each yields no sales.  In fact I’ve watched this seller for a few weeks and have yet to find a single sale after going through approximately 10 – 20 pages.  However, yourgmdealer has received 9 feedbacks (more on that later) so there have been some sales.  Based on eBay’s stated average of a 70% feedback participation rate that would mean yourgmdealer has made roughly 13 sales.  This would yield a 0.03 % sell-through rate.  That’s about 100 times worse than BUY’s sell-through rate."

• GM Extends Its eBay Partnership - But Why?
• SeekingAlpha.com Richard Read - "GM's vice president of U.S. sales, Mark LaNeve, says that "The numbers on eBay itself aren't significant, but we didn't think it would be." Unfortunately, that's the classic "Yeah, we meant to do that" explanation for poor performance that never convinces anyone."

• eBay Motors Extends Special Deal for GM
• AuctionBytes.com Ina Steiner -
• "AuctionBytes has received email letters from sellers pointing to the low feedback ratings consumers are leaving for the seller."
• "Another complaint is that eBay is condoning off-eBay sales through the agreement."

• General Motors brings its legacy of bad service to eBay
• WalletPop.com - "Exhibit A in the "Nothing has changed" file is this: the feedback rating for GM's eBay account."

• eBay Seller YOURGMDEALER Racking Up The Negs!
• eBayMotorsSucks.com - "Meanwhile 11,410 GM Vehicles are left to sell on eBay - At the rate they are selling, the 2011’s will be out!"

• General Motors' deal with eBay leads to few sales
• BloggingStocks.com - "In the program's first week, there were 2,400 offers that led to negotiations, but the companies declined to say how many of those actually culminated in sales -- which is never a good sign."

Yes, the above is blatant link gathering, abet we do make it easier for you to find these articles.

We do recommend reading the TheBrewsNews.com article, and subscribing to their site.

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"We know GM has the vehicles, if not they can build them. ~ LOL"
ebay_paid

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Below is the obligatory screen shot (click to enlarge) of the eBay feedback for General Motors (GM).

And a text copy of GM's feedback.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=yourgmdealer

10 Feedback received

Revised Feedback: 0

	Feedback	From / Price	Date / Time
	Pleasant and easy to deal with	Buyer: strategicnetworksinc ( 0 )	Sep-02-09 10:08
	Chevrolet : Colorado (#390079847689)	US $28,427.00	View Item
	no car to buy	Buyer: 1spongekitty ( 1 )	Sep-01-09 08:08
	Chevrolet : HHR (#350241521084)	US $25,214.00	View Item
	BAIT AND SWITCH. POST BIN RAISED PRICE BY 950 FOR "TRUE COAT" ALA FARGO.	Buyer: shark1998 ( 961)	Aug-23-09 19:30
	Pontiac : Solstice (#320410583374)	US $30,002.00	View Item
	Dealer was very nic, item was as advertised and transaction was straightforward.	Buyer: rickrita535 ( 36)	Aug-21-09 11:05
	GMC : Canyon (#320410579385)	US $13,436.00	View Item
	IT HAS BEEN A VERY EASY PROCESS	Buyer: 661henryglen ( 0 )	Aug-21-09 10:48
	Chevrolet : Equinox (#320413548483)	US $21,710.00	View Item
	Great Deal for My Cobalt at Rotolo Chevrolet Superb Service by Shane Brown & All	Buyer: anoble ( 872)	Aug-21-09 09:41
	Chevrolet : Cobalt (#390079847630)	US $16,131.00	View Item
	Used "Buy It Now". Listed @ "wrong" price. Dealer refused to sell. GM no help !!	Buyer: setrigger ( 207)	Aug-20-09 17:47
	Chevrolet (#390080182961)	US $42,085.00	View Item
	THIS A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS	Buyer: 661henryglen ( 0 )	Aug-20-09 16:51
	Chevrolet : Cobalt (#350241502303)	US $14,580.00	View Item
	it was very easy	Buyer: 661henryglen ( 0 )	Aug-20-09 15:37
	Chevrolet : Equinox (#320412117336)	US $21,451.00	View Item
	The dealer was excellent, and we are happy with the purchase.	Buyer: pyates1_2007 ( 0 )	Aug-15-09 23:04
	Pontiac : Vibe (#350238284907)	US $16,630.00	View Item

In keeping with the article title, let's look into zero feedback buyers 661henryglen and pyates1_2007.  At the time of this article, neither has received any positive feedback from the sellers they made purchases from.

If you're wondering why zero feedback buyer strategicnetworksinc is not on our poke into list, we suspect they are Strategic Networks INC , a legitimate buyer.

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"Richard Kimble has been tried and convicted for the murder of his wife. But laws are made by men, carried out by men. And men are imperfect. Richard Kimble is innocent."
The Fugitive (1963)

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In the current rush to figure out what is going on with the GM and eBay deal, it's been posited that 661henryglen and pyates1_2007 are shill bidders. That they were sent in to boost feedback for GM.

This is wrong.

Consider for a moment that yourgmdealer (General Motors) was not the only seller that 661henryglen and pyates1_2007 and made purchases from.  You do know that these two made purchases from other sellers?  Ergo if you believe the shill bidder assumption, then 661henryglen and pyates1_2007 must be doing the same for the other sellers they made purchases from?

Really???

No.

This is not to say that there is no shill bidding or feedback manipulation occurring on eBay.  But considering the other sellers involved here, we don't see it.

Let's try the simpler explanation.  That perhaps we're dealing with what's commonly known as a "joy bidder".

• "These particular group of people would just bid and win your item and then refuse to respond to your emails or calls for payment."  paladin_star( 79)

Anyone take the time to ask these other sellers about these other closed transactions?  Take a guess as to what we did.

We believe it is wrong and unfair to tarnish the reputations of the other sellers involved.  If you feel the 'innocent unless proven guilty' is overly broad, honest sellers should consider that could have been you.

And with an abundance of joy bidders it can still be you.

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"The dealer was excellent, and we are happy with the purchase."
pyates1_2007 ( 0 )

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Buyer number one is pyates1_2007 and they've been an eBay member since November 27 2004.  According to eBay they reside in California (United States).

These are their last three purchases, and they've received no feedback.

Buyer pyates1_2007 bought a set of four tires.  For a very nice price. 

Nine days later pyates1_2007 purchased a 2010 Pontiac Vibe w/1SA "4 cylinder 1.8L Anti-Lock Brakes Bucket Seats" from GM San Diego, and the next day another 2010 Pontiac Vibe w/1SA (Hatchback 4 cylinder 1.8L Anti-Lock Brakes Power Brakes) from GM Paso Robles.  The only feedback they've given is for one of those cars.

• #350238284907 -- Paso Robles GM Dealer
• 2010 Pontiac Vibe w/1SA (Hatchback 4 cylinder 1.8L Anti-Lock Brakes Power Brakes)
• Purchased at:  Aug-13-2009 11:15:24 PST
• Feedback left at:  Aug-15-2009 23:04 PST

This looks like someone doing comparison shopping, then over the next two days taking what they consider the better deal.  The making multiple purchases but paying for only one, is a type of buyer/transaction common on eBay.

Our verdict:  Another satisfied GM customer.

Our condolences to the San Diego GM dealership.

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"it was very easy"
661henryglen ( 0 )

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We're sure it was easy.

Buyer number two is 661henryglen and they've been an eBay member since June 03 2009.  According to eBay they reside in California (United States).

They made multiple purchases over a two day (24 hour) period, and they've received no feedback.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=661henryglen&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

9 Feedback left

	Feedback	Left for	Date / Time
	THANK YOU	Seller: gigadirect ( 1280)	Aug-21-09 14:31
	-- (#390083797397)	--	View Item
	thank you	lmendezjr2003 ( 39)	Aug-21-09 14:26
	-- (#220466055499)	--	View Item
	thank you	miker397 ( 101)	Aug-21-09 14:22
	-- (#270444908199)	--	View Item
	THANK YOU	appliancedirect321 ( 230)	Aug-21-09 12:35
	-- (#180399022173)	--	View Item
	THANK YOU	buy ( 824671)	Aug-21-09 12:26
	-- (#400068379238)	--	View Item
	THIS WAS VERY SIMPLE	gmouse123 ( 2087)	Aug-21-09 12:24
	-- (#320414700852)	--	View Item
	IT HAS BEEN A VERY EASY PROCESS	yourgmdealer ( 2 )	Aug-21-09 10:48
	-- (#320413548483)	--	View Item
	THIS A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS	yourgmdealer ( 2 )	Aug-20-09 16:51
	-- (#350241502303)	--	View Item
	it was very easy	yourgmdealer ( 2 )	Aug-20-09 15:37
	-- (#320412117336)	--	View Item

Here's where it gets interesting.

The list below shows on line one the item number and seller.  Line two has the time the item was purchased and the time feedback was left and the time between the two events (Hours:Minutes:Seconds).  Line three shows the purchase price and the name of the item.

Pay careful attention to the times in each line two.

1. 390083797397 -- gigadirect ( 1280)
2. Aug-21-2009 14:31:00 -- Aug-21-2009 14:31 PST -- 00:00:00
3. $1,499.00    6 WWE - SummerSlam Tickets 8/23/09 (Los Angeles) VIP

1. 220466055499 -- lmendezjr2003 ( 39)
2. Aug-21-09 14:25:53 -- Aug-21-2009 14:26 PST -- 00:00.07
3. $160.00    WWE - SummerSlam Tickets 8/23/09 (Los Angeles)

1. 270444908199 -- miker397 ( 101)
2. Aug-21-09 14:20:24 -- Aug-21-2009 14:22 PST -- 00:01:36
3. $515.00    Walmart Gift Card $500.00 Balance - Free shipping

1. 180399022173 -- appliancedirect321 ( 230)
2. Aug-21-09 12:13:39 -- Aug-21-2009 12:35 PST -- 00:21:21
3. $1,615.00    Maytag Epic Series 27" Front Load Washer and Dryer New

1. 400068379238 -- buy ( 824671)
2. Aug-21-09 12:11:36 -- Aug-21-2009 12:26 PST -- 00:24:24
3. $90.71    NEW Haier 1.7 Cu. Ft. Compact Mini Refrigerator (Top...

1. 320414700852 -- gmouse123 ( 2087)
2. Aug-21-09 11:12:35 -- Aug-21-2009 12:24 PST -- 01:11:25
3. $539.97    NEW NINTENDO WII+WII FIT+WII SPORTS RESORT+MARIO KART

1. 320413548483 -- yourgmdealer ( 2 )
2. Aug-21-2009  07:23:47 -- Aug-21-2009 10:48 PST -- 03:24:13
3. $21,710.00    2009 Chevrolet Equinox LS

1. 350241502303 -- yourgmdealer ( 2 )
2. Aug-20-2009  16:48:01 -- Aug-20-2009 16:51 PST -- 00:02:59
3. $14,580.00    2009 Chevrolet Cobalt LS

1. 320412117336 -- yourgmdealer ( 2 )
2. Aug-20-2009  15:33:11 -- Aug-20-2009 15:37 PST -- 00:03:49
3. $21,451.00    2009 Chevrolet Equinox LS

A rather short time between purchase, delivery, and feedback wouldn't you say?  Not that there appears to be at the moment any money changing hands.  According to sellers 661henryglen never pays for their purchases, and unpaid item cases have been opened.

Our verdict:  Possible "Joy Bidder".  Consider putting this one in your Bidder Block List (BBL).

Because 661henryglen hit sellers that eBay has a vested interest in, buy (Buy.com) and yourgmdealer, we believe their buying spree days may be over.

But that does bring up an interesting conundrum.  Big IF 661henryglen committed unwelcome and malicious buying against eBay vested interest sellers, why is their account not a registered user (NARU)?

Two answers:

1. They're a legitimate buyer.
2. If their account is NARU'd, this leaves open the possibility that ALL feedback left would be removed.

If we're dealing with case number two, this would have virtually no affect on buy (Buy.com).  Buy (Buy.com) has 679,689 positive feedback over a 12 month period.  Removing one positive feedback would result in an insignificant change in their Feedback Profile.

The GM yourgmdealer account is a another matter though.  Over a 12 month period (or 1 month period),  yourgmdealer has seven positive feedback and three negative feedback, resulting in a 62.5% Feedback Percentage.

What kind of visual image does the casual view see with three less positives?  Does a Feedback Rating of four positives and three negatives look good?  Which is the near coin toss chance of getting a good deal from GM/eBay.

Are we having fun yet?

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"It's my gift. It's my curse."
Frank Black, Millennium (1996-1999)

"It's a blessing, and a curse."
Adrian Monk, Monk (2002-2009)

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© 1984-2009  Event Horizon

Silencing the Lambs - eBay Cuts Voices Roster

Silencing the Lambs - eBay Cuts Voices Roster
26 August 2009
EventHorizon1984

It's that time of year when rosters get cut in professional Football. In that same vein eBay has taken to slashing it's eBay Voices lineup from 130 to 100.

According to an AuctionBytes article "Is eBay Phasing out 'Voices' Focus-Group Program?", the person "responsible for Voices, eBay Senior Manager of Seller Development "responsible for Voices" Garnor Morantes said:

• "This change is something we've been thinking about for a while and is meant to give others the chance to participate in the program. We're looking to bring in some new perspectives, some new buyers and sellers - all levels of selling."

Incidentally, detouring a bit.  If you're thinking "focus group??", here's something we pulled (sort of) at random:

Using Focus Groups For Evaluation
Mary Marczak & Meg Sewell

• "The technique was developed after World War II"
• "A focus group could be defined as a group of interacting individuals having some common interest or characteristics, brought together by a moderator, who uses the group and its interaction as a way to gain information about a specific or focused issue."
• "A focus group is typically 7-10 people who are unfamiliar with each other. These participants are selected because they have certain characteristics in common that relate to the topic of the focus group. The moderator or interviewer creates a permissive and nurturing environment that encourages different perceptions and points of view, without pressuring participants to vote, plan or reach consensus"

Unfortunately eBay doesn't quite get how not to use focus groups:

• "because focus groups are usually made up of a very small number of people who voluntarily participate, you cannot assume that their views and perceptions represent those of other groups that might have slightly different characteristics. They are not "random samples".

And someone is ignoring the disadvantages:

• "Small numbers and convenience sampling severely limit ability to generalize to larger populations"
• "Moderator may knowingly or unknowingly bias results by providing cues about what types of responses are desirable"
• "Results may be biased by presence of a very dominant or opinionated member"

"I do not think it means what you think it means."
Indigo Montoya, The Princess Bride (1987)

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This roster cut has produced some consternation from eBay Voices members.

For example eBay perennial favorite PowerSeller Marty (clact (5147)) made his usual flurry of correct and incorrect statements. Or as he described other people doing the same thing, "all the BULL$&*@ in these comments".  Such as:

• "No other major company has a program like Voices in place to keep them on track and there is no doubt in my mind that at some point this company will be moving in the right direction."

This individual should consider that they're wrong on two counts.  According to eBay CEO John Donahoe eBay is moving in the right direction.  And about that focus groups myth?  Check out this old interesting article.

Business Week
Shoot The Focus Group
14 November 2005

• "Exasperation with focus groups, while not universal, is growing as companies look for better ways to get inside consumers' heads"
• "Perhaps the most common complaint about focus groups is that consumers are not honest in front of other people."
• ""Consumers aren't dishonest, it's that most people don't listen the right way." On the other hand, maybe consumers can be heard more clearly when nobody is watching."

As you might expect, the reaction of eBay Voices members posting comments to the AuctionBytes article "eBay Silences Founding 'Voices' Members" varied. Some of the posts read:

• by: Randy
• Thu Aug 20 02:29:54 2009

Looks I was smart to leave when I did last year ....  Randy (Former) Voices 3 Member.

• by: What Me Worry
• Thu Aug 20 13:44:57 2009

Heck this was coming...I saw it when I was in the program.
When Voices was founded, it's members were actually helpful to the employees in forming programs.

The past several years, many members felt that they were nothing more than "lab rats" as ebay measured reactions to already made decisions.

When the administrator of the program, Garnor Morantes, has to remind members to be positive about their comments and admit that he's hesitant about opening up the comments for all employees to view...they do not want to hear what they need to know...they want to hear what they want to hear...

Signed...former Voices member

• by: Nancy Leckron
• Thu Aug 20 14:30:18 2009

I am one of the effected Voices member's that was retired.  I value the time I spent giving my opinion on a varity of topics.  Remember people, we are real live human beings.  I gave my time for the greater good of the entire eBay Community.  Yes, I am a Proud Former Voices Member!

• by: Still a Voice
• Thu Aug 20 15:38:06 2009

I am saddened by this decision, but feel the need to reply to a couple comments made here.  I remain in the program, but have always been a small buyer/seller, and in fact, am currently at my lowest level ever, having only listed less than 10 items in the last six months.  Also, I am definitely not an eBay cheerleader.  I am disappointed in the direction eBay seems to be going.  As long as I am Still a Voice, I will remain an advocate for the small seller!  I don't think the program has the influence it once did, but I DO think it continues to have merit.

Those who are being removed this week will be sorely missed.  Those who were involuntarily removed in the past (or resigned under obvious pressure to do so), not so much.

• by: former_Voice
• Thu Aug 20 15:45:59 2009

I enjoyed my time in Voices.  There was true give-and-take, and eBay really was interested in what we had to say. That doesn't mean that everyone got what they wanted, and any Voices member who thought the group had any real power is just kidding themselves.  However, I can say that there were several instances of ''done deals'' not happening or being altered, due, in part, to the responses of Voices members.

eBay is a business.  It is not evil. I don't believe that JD is evil. Somehow someone got the idea that eBay would care more about the community than its own financial health.  That will never happen.

Grow up.  If it works for you, fine; if not, then shut up and move on.  Be responsible for your own situation and stop blaming someone else.  

• by: brecklundin
• Fri Aug 21 03:18:41 2009

For those who feel voices members were sycophants and yes men sorts you are the exact reason some of us left eBay.  I was an active member of the user boards helping 1000s of members at the drop of a hat in order to make smaller sellers find their way through eBay.  I was a member of what might have been the most influential and effective Voices group.  I know that is saying a lot but we were note even close to "yes men/women" and at that time eBay truly listened to us.  

We each gave up years of our time and advice I personally would have charged clients tens of thousands of dollars for...all to HELP my fellow sellers.  But we were met with petty jealously from the more unbalanced eBay'ers who always knew better yet accomplished nothing.  

I finally left when there was too much of a difference of opinion between myself and one individual who was running the program.  

I will tell you I gave them the Health Insurance thing for Power Sellers and argued that they were asking sellers to commit themselves full time to selling and eBay had the resources to help organize a group insurance program.  eBay LOVED the idea...unfortunately the INSURANCE INDUSTRY refused to come up with a real health insurance program.  Still the options which came the ashes of a well intentioned program, which eBay genuinely put a LOT of man hours into trying to develop, but what rose was at least a very decent Rx discount program that saves me over $400/mo on medications and even more if I was willing to take some of the more dangerous meds to help slow down the progression of my primary health issue...Meg overstated the scope of the program at eBay Live 1 but at the time she was unaware of the final denial from the insurance carriers...still there is value in the program.  I take pride in knowing I was a motivating voice behind something to potentially help millions of people save even more millions on many aspects of their health care needs.

Another personal feature of the site that was exclusively mine and I gave it to the lead programmer free because I was never going to be able to develop feature on a site as my serious programming days were behind me and I had a parent who needed me as her caregiver.  And that feature is the Best Offer, I designed it, talked to Mark about it and eBay made a few changes but developed one of the most used features on the site...and no I never was paid or asked for compensation.  But eBay added it after my disagreement with the then coordinator of Voices...and it was over something very stupid on my part but I am a stubborn bastard when I am in the mood...and boy was I in the mood...hehehe...

We came up with the idea of annual convention type events moved around the country...this because eBay Live.  It would have worked had eBay held the community together with real mods rather than farming it all out...big error on their part...

You also have no idea who many ideas we stopped cold in their tracks during conference calls.  You should have been a fly one the wall when we gave a top to bottom dressing-down to UPS VP's when they were trying to gain exclusive access to eBay sellers of all other carriers.  Sellers in antiques and collectibles can tell you that UPS might be the single worst carrier in terms of delivery, obtaining signatures as paid for (drives can just drop boxes even if a sig is required when the area is designated as a drop and go area...this would destroy the needed signature for PP Seller Protection.)  We pointed out that there was no such thing as a one size fits all.

We were strongly influential in getting sellers to be required in revealing all fees in their listings.  Shipping, handling and insurance.  Our compromise was in lieu of limits which are impractical because a seller in NY has higher staff overhead than one on small town USA.  So, our suggestion was a compromise (eBay was against revealing or limiting...) but we pushed and argued very cogently for simple declaration of any fees.  before us there was no rule and sellers often raised fees if items sold under value.

We fought with PayPal when they tried to take away the 1.5% cash back for using the PP Debit card...they wanted to eliminate ALL cashback programs...I for one told PayPal directly that should they remove that program I would not use their service...I am no large seller, but I had an ace in the hole as did every member of our group, we had the ear of the community on the eBay Boards, each of us in a different board.  While we alone might not have saved the program, we planted the seed of doubt that cutting the program would potentially wreck eBay's recently acquired PayPal.  Again earning millions of funds for millions of sellers...but we were "yes men/women".

I am sure there will be those who know exactly who I am from my comments...and those people will also know I honest to a fault...and I take crap from nobody, and every member of our group was the same way, each in their own way.  Two of us were more vocal but the others were just as resolute unwilling to compromise beyond a certain point where sellers and/or buyers would be harmed.

I have the utmost respect for my fellow members in our Voices group...we worked hard for everyone of us, we did nothing in a self serving fashion...but there were those out there who felt because we were legally bound to not disclose these things we were 'assimilated'.  I personally put my eBay account at risk in standing up for what I though was right...yet I say cowards with posting ID's bitching like 8yr old school girls about us, eBay and the lack of decent tinfoil for their hats.

I guess you can say I stopped caring.  I stopped caring about eBay as a company as well as my fellow eBay'ers...now a decade later, I care only for my buyers and give them the best of the best in service and respect.  Something the whiners have not clue about...

I have a personal list of eBay execs who I have the utmost respect for...the believed in the small community the level playing field and all the things which eBay was...but unfortunately, they lost the battle.  

I will point out two....Maynard Webb and Bill Cobb.  Yeah, many of the whiners thing those two were just horrible people...having actually looked them in the eye, spent hours in person with them and one the phones, they are honest and decent people.  There are easily 50-100 people at eBay I still remember that had the best intentions.  Sadly, the decisions from the very top, did some serious damage.  I also know the people who believed in the community, they either gave up hope to feed their families or left eBay.

After our eBay group basically the program was changed and significantly watered down.  Still that does not mean the members were in it just for themselves and to say they were part of eBay...those sorts were actually weeded out pretty early.

No matter what the antagonists say, I know what I did personally and what my group did as a whole...and we did GOOD.

The single regret I had was we were unable to convince eBay to move eBay Live Listings out of the core or at least into their own sub area in each category.  but eventually we were proven right because many remained vocal and kept pointing out the ethically questionable aspects of Live Auction format and their mixing in with regular listings.

I know this was not well written but I needed to express that in our early groups there were a couple special teams (we really became a team and ours was as cohesive a team as I have ever worked with, and we never knew each other before Voices, well I knew one member of my group and she was one of the stellar members who was in it for us ALL not herself...

I also have bent, but likely not broken my NDA but after a decade since I signed it, I feel things have changed enough to live with someone "peeing in the cheerios" a bit in order to set a few things straight.

I know the anger will come back..it always does, but if you examine the eBay ID's of those people you will find proof of their lack of stability revealed in how they deal with customers.

Ina knows me and knows who I am...and I know w/o her watching eBay for us, we would be caught even more off guard...

Mostly anonymous posts are not truly satisfying, and at this juncture all three of you* may be wondering who are these eBay Voices.  While it's possible to piece together a list (as we choose to understand it), that's never happening here. Other than the basic privacy issues involved, that would be just plain rude.

* We jest. It's really four.

For brevity we will stick to speaking of a few members made openly public by eBay.  In April 2003.

eBay's "Voices" program...
by Daphne, eBay Staff Member
April 2003

According to The Chatter article since 1999, "Several times a year, eight to ten members are flown to eBay's corporate office in San Jose, California. They are chosen from all levels of eBay's buying and selling community -- from Shooting Stars and PowerSellers, to mom-and-pop sellers, and all levels of buyers."  Followed by, " regular conference calls and email discussions".

The writer goes on to say, "Participants sign non-disclosure agreements" and "This confidentiality makes Voices groups a powerful tool".  Then Daphne discloses three names.

It's definitely interesting about what became of these three eBay Voices members.

• eBay's "Voices" program...
• "drexelantiques, who attended Voices said this about his experience: "eBay had set up a wonderful program. Very informative. I hadn't expected eBay to really listen to the Voices participants, but they did. eBay staff was very concerned with users' opinions. Participants' questions were answered fully. The eBay staff were very frank in discussing issues. The staff at eBay that we had a chance to talk to were among the nicest group of folks I have met in a long time. We were treated very well. ….eBay staff also alleviated some of my concerns over the direction eBay was taking.""

Today seller DrexelAntiques (2175) (member since Nov-12-98) remains an active buyer on eBay, but their last eBay sale feedback was August 29 2003. They have a brick and mortar store.

• eBay's "Voices" program...
• "gatorpack wrote: "The most important thing I took away from the experience was the realization that everyone I met at eBay was genuinely sincere in their efforts to carry on as much of Pierre's founding philosophies as possible, yet pragmatically deal with all the twists, turns and complexities the beast was spinning off. In 1995, '96, '97 or '98, who could have possibly imagined what was to come. If anything, it reinforced, rather than changed, our perceptions and opinions of eBay. I know exactly what it's like to work in an environment where you are constantly making up things as you go along.""

Today seller Gatorpack (32761) (member since Jan-22-99) neither buys nor sells on this account. The account remains active with an impressive positive feedback of 32,761. Their last eBay sale feedback is dated October 12 2007.  They're currently selling online at Gatorpack.com.

• eBay's "Voices" program...
• "giraffer had this to say: "Really I expected to hear a sales pitch, or as we often give our customers where I work...the mission statement pitch. And never expected anyone would listen to us and really show that they cared about the community and our problems. I was impressed to have vice presidents sitting down and talking with us in such an informal manner. I was impressed with how friendly everyone was and how they made me feel important and glad to have me there. What did I take away? That everyone at eBay cares and will continue to do their best to make the site work for the community. That they are real people, not just this unknown entity. I'm so proud of this program and eBay for having it that I proudly display the Voices logo on my ME page and my business card.""

Today Giraffer (3020) (member since Jan-19-99) is a "Retired Member eBay's Voice of the Community 10".  By eBay Corporate standards they are a small seller. The account remains active in sales and purchases.  Giraffer is an active poster on the eBay Discussion Boards.  Giraffer is as exuberant about eBay now as she was in 2003.

"any Voices member who thought the group had any real power is just kidding themselves"
former_voice

.

With this small sample showing two out of three eBay Voices sellers gone from eBay, we have to wonder how relevant is eBay Voices to the participants?  And do 100 eBay Voices have any relevance to the millions of eBay buyers and the 50+ million active sellers on eBay?

Or is eBay Voices all 'baaaaa' humbug.

.

"You will let me know when those lambs stop screaming, won't you?"
Hannibal Lecter MD, Silence of the Lambs (1991)

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