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From eBay Seller Central Forum
what do you do if you suspect a switcheroo?
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=1008676779&forumID=143&x#1008676779
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:14 PDT
I sell toys and I just got a message that a toy I sold was 'out of the package and stuffed back in' 'used' 'doesn't light up - light blown' and worst experience ever on ebay etc.
This toy was brand new sealed (I only sell new) and in no way was in the condition she described, even if it was damaged during shipment there's no way it would be out of the sealed package and 'used' to the extent she is claiming.. not even possible.
What really gets me is I told her to ship it back and I'd offer a replacement to be shipped out, but no of course she wants a full refund. I really can't afford to eat it if she returns her kid old broken toy to me.
So what do I do? If she opens a SNAD paypal will most likely give her the money back.. am I correct?
27 replies Date posted Reply #
chopt49 (51 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:20 PDT 1 of 27
well you've gone and done it now.
I have had people send obvious B.S. emails like this before. I simply ignored them and they went away.
if you knew it was new and sealed when you shipped, why did you offer to take it back opened and used??
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incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:24 PDT 2 of 27
for one I do leave myself open to the possiblity it was somehow damaged in shipment, but being unsealed and open and the rest - no way. I can't just ignore it because I'm sure a SNAD and paypal complaint will be coming next
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:26 PDT 3 of 27
The fact that she's unwilling to take a replacement and wants a refund tells me a lot
justa_lil_magic (145 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:26 PDT 4 of 27
If you offered a replacement and she shipped the one back then she agreed to those terms. If you said you would replace it she shipped it and then said oh wait no I want a refund then tough. If this happens to you in the future you can ask for pictures of the damage. Also it is good to state something like " If when I get the product back and it has my sellers mark and I can be sure this is the one I sent out I will...." It is up to you to offer replacement or refund. She can't get both. As far as paypal is concerned first she has to be able to prove she sent it back. If she did not use delivery confirmation she will be denied by paypal. Sometimes we all get frustrated and say or do the wrong thing. Don't beat yourself up over it. If it happens again. Take a few to calm down and then respond to them.
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:35 PDT 5 of 27
Thanks Justa .. I think I may ask her to send pictures of the item. We're still in the email stage. I have been selling on Ebay a long time and I read these boards and see the terrible experiences some have but I am very fortunate that in over 800 sales I've really only had maybe 1 or 2 problems where it was blatant trying to scam. This is the first one in a long long time and I feel she is dishonest.
bellinghambabe (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 20:41 PDT 6 of 27
I totally feel your pain!
I have had buyers try the old switcheroo on me when I sold toys as well. After the first time it happened, I started putting an invisible mark on the box somewhere.
When you tell them you will refund upon receipt of the toy in the original packing and with the invisible mark verified by you, they never do respond.
The only thing I can think of if the post office or however you shipped it damaged it so much and then packed it back in, but then you would see obvious damage before you even open it up. They also put on a note that says that there was damage and insurance will cover it.
In your case it sounds like a scam--make sure you have the photos you can show paypal if they do investigate. I think it's not as easy to get a refund from paypal if they receive something.
Good luck!
bookbin.etc (409 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 21:37 PDT 7 of 27
If it was new and sealed, does that not show in the listing pictures?
puglover48 (7 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 21:55 PDT 8 of 27
Why don't you answer back and stick up for yourself. Tell the buyer you are sorry but you KNOW that the item you shipped to her was brand new in package and that you will accept a return only if it is brand new in a sealed package the way it was shipped and that it must be returned to you. If it is returned in the same condition as sent your will entertain a refund.
She just may get a refund from that stupid PP. It seems they refund willy nilly. Thats one of the reasons I will not accept it and I do just fine selling on ebay.
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-16-07 22:06 PDT 9 of 27
It was sealed in the package in the listing. I guess the part that bothers me most is the whole point of it and I do want to fight about it not so much about the money but for the point. I'll be taking the same loss to send a replacement, but it would make me feel better that if it is a scam they aren't getting their cash back and replacing their old product with a free one... if that makes sense. I think PP makes it too easier for buyers to get a refund.
surplusdealdude (140 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 04:12 PDT 10 of 27
The fact that she's unwilling to take a replacement and wants a refund tells me a lot
Yup. Me too.
We've been getting a lot of reports of this on this board all of a sudden. I suspect that a buyer/seller or a group of them has found a way to get material cheap.
Would you post the auction number or tell us the buyers name?
It would be interesting to see if we get some common names showing up.
klem4710 (48 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 04:35 PDT 11 of 27
Can you ask them to return it so you can check your inventory control number, before you can issue a refund?
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 06:39 PDT 12 of 27
I got this email from the buyer today
It wasn't even wired in the box. It was loose. I will just contact the Paypal resolution program today. I don’t want another broken toy, I want a refund and I'll only ship this back once you pay for return shipping
I wrote back
If the item was damaged in shipment, (or any other way) I offered to replace it once the broken one is returned and the lot # on the toy can be verified. The best I can do is to offer you another brand new toy. Your free to open a paypal dispute if you don't think this is fair, but I believe paypal will also allow me to replace the broken toy with a new one. I'm sorry you received a less than perfect toy and I am doing my best to make it right offering a new replacement.
Ugh usually I pick my battles but my gut is making me follow through with this one.
Question, will paypal allow a replacement toy to be shipped?
i*buywiththisid (73 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 06:46 PDT 13 of 27
Paypal will allow that IF the other party agrees.
However, paypal WILL Require her to send the toy back at HER expense.
If paypal refunds, they WILL give her a full refund of the original payment.
Don't kowtow to her demands, make her send it back.
*********************
Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part
3furrycats (18 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 06:50 PDT 14 of 27
She has to return the toy to you anyway for a paypal refund.
Early on selling here, I had a customer purchase a Longaberger Basket, saying it arrived damaged.
She returned it to me. Upon the checking of the weavers initials, they did not match.
crsnglb (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 07:16 PDT 15 of 27
You TOTALLY should have NEVER asked her to open a paypal dispute; if you think she's lying and doesn't have a right to a refund, but still wants your money, she can do the research yourself. Now you're just leading her on and making yourself more vulnerable.
Good luck, I hope you can get the best of her!
~~~~
O_o I just realized what a riduculous id name I have...just call me Cr! o_O
logan1 (3110 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 08:22 PDT 16 of 27
If the scammer paid via Paypal, she just needs to file a SNAD complaint and she'll (ultimately) get to keep your item, money and get free shipping.
At one time, there appeared to be some kind of review by a person, but that ended a long time ago.
Paypal may require that the scammer submit proof of sending (at least) an empty box (weight won't matter -- that is, you sent something that weighed 50 pounds and she sends back a 1 pound package, and that's OK). But sometimes they don't even require that she mail anything. Paypal may even instruct the scammer to destroy your item b/c they've decided it's a fake.
Particularly if she paid with a credit card via Paypal you're most likely to have your item stolen, as Ebay doesn't want to have to pay a chargeback.
If you appeal, you'll be told to "contact law enforcement."
justa_lil_magic (145 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 09:58 PDT 17 of 27
I am sorry but I dissagree. I have had some disputes with paypal. I had one where I was the buyer. Seller sent the wrong item and thought she didn't. I had to send the item back and provide dc. Of course once she got the item back she saw she sent the wrong one and still did not want to send the correct item. I got my money back. As as seller I sent an item out. Buyer claimed damage and had to ship it back and provide dc. When I got the item back it was not even the correct color. I sent pictures of the returned item and I won again. The buyer never sent the correct item. They kinda dissappeared when asked why they sent the real item. I have never heard paypal say to destroy an item and not send it back.
langer1 (358 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 10:23 PDT 18 of 27
I have never heard PayPal say to destroy an item and not send it back.
They do if the buyer can prove the item was counterfeit.
They are told to destroy it or turn it over to the proper authorities for evidence.
If it's for a large amount, the buyer is advised to send it to Paypal, also for evidence.
John
My Free Graphic site.
Um IS NOT AN ANSWER!!
To a small mind, every problems a Big problem.
dharic (1056 ) View Listings | Report Apr-17-07 11:11 PDT 19 of 27
I've heard of buyers being told to destroy the item especially clothes and purses deemed to be fake. Problem is, anyone can type up letterhead and have someone sign it saying 'in their professional opinion' the item is fake.
incognito8106 (9 ) View Listings | Report Apr-18-07 06:40 PDT 20 of 27
Obviously this buyer knows the system because we've still been going back and forth in email and I told her she needs to return the toy to me so I can check the lot # and return it to my vendor for a refund.. and this is her response
I'd rather send you a certificate of destruction, saying that I promise I have trashed it
yea right - certificate of destruction? Is this a new ebay term I haven't heard of?
minnesota-vol (14 ) View Listings | Report Apr-18-07 06:50 PDT 21 of 27
Dear Buyer,
As I have offered before, I am willing to refund your purchase only after I have received the item back, in the condition it was received. I must verify my seller's mark and the toy's lot number before I can consider any refund. Please return by xx/xx and I will contact you regarding the refund.
If you are unwilling to return the toy and wish to keep it for any reason, I consider this transaction complete.
Sincerely,
Your Seller
always*hungry (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-18-07 07:39 PDT 22 of 27
Sounds fishy. Why would the buyer offer to destroy before Paypal has even made a determination(and anyway usually destruction is only ordered when counterfeit claim has be made and 'verified')?
If the buyer has filed their dipute, as they said they would, I would discontinue direct communication with them, communicate only though the dipute and wait for Paypals ruling before taking any further steps.
mayor*of*monkeytown (12 ) View Listings | Report Apr-18-07 07:59 PDT 23 of 27
Incognito, what's her feedback like? Any problems showing up with stuff like this?
logan1 (3110 ) View Listings | Report Apr-20-07 07:28 PDT 24 of 27
Paypal/Ebay has gotten to the point where they're instructing people to destroy items and then stealing money from the seller's account to give a scammer a free item + free shipping.
What exactly does Paypal have to do before people stop using the service?
my_board_posting_identity (Private ) View Listings | Report Apr-20-07 17:42 PDT 25 of 27
Paypal may require that the scammer submit proof of sending (at least) an empty box (weight won't matter -- that is, you sent something that weighed 50 pounds and she sends back a 1 pound package, and that's OK). But sometimes they don't even require that she mail anything. Paypal may even instruct the scammer to destroy your item b/c they've decided it's a fake.
Let's not blow this out of proportion. Most of the time things work out just fine without all that drama.
I have never heard paypal say to destroy an item and not send it back.
It's happened, but it's rare.
-------------------------------------------------
"Weapons are the tools of violence; all decent men detest them." -Lao-Tzu
"What broke in a man when he could bring himself to kill another?" -Alan Paton
always*hungry (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-21-07 14:43 PDT 26 of 27
OP
Was the dispute settled?
hightides_beach_shop (205 ) View Listings | Report Apr-21-07 15:37 PDT 27 of 27
I agree
Paypal will require proof of return and unless it's counterfeit, will not instruct the buyer to "destroy" it.
OP Minn had a fantastic email response.
Send that word for word and stop replying to this person, please.
It's just going to get worse if you do.
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