http://www.projectsandimas.com/
Project San Dimas
Announcing "San Dimas", a new desktop application from eBay. It provides a new search interface, a fun way to bid, access to your personal eBay history, and much more. We are sharing this project in the very early stages because we want your input. Sign up for the Beta, and help us build this brand new way to use eBay.
- Alan Lewis, San Dimas Product Manager
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Adam Trachtenberg is eBay's Senior Manager of Evangelism and Disruptive Innovation.
http://videos.webpronews.com/2007/06/13/ebaydev-adam-trachtenberg-on-ebays-new-platform-extensions/
Adam Trachtenberg is eBay's Senior Manager of Platform Evangelism.
http://devzone.zend.com/node/view/id/781
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http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/entry/The-Mystery-Behind-the-Name-San-Dimas/_W0QQcommentsyncidZ0QQidZ219800010The Mystery Behind the Name "San Dimas"
One of the questions I often hear when speaking about Project San Dimas is: "Why is San Dimas called San Dimas?" Good question. So, I thought I'd let everyone into the answer.
At eBay, we like to use code names for products before they go live. At the time we started working on San Dimas, there was another product nicknamed "Baldwin Park".
If you don't live in Southern California, Baldwin Park is a suburb of Los Angeles. So, when trying to come up with a name for this project, Alan decided to look at neighboring LA towns -- and came across "San Dimas."
San Dimas, of course, is the hometown Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted Logan, best known for their work in the band "Wyld Stallyns."
That's right, it's a reference to "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure", that great work of late 80s cinema, and the first movie with Keanu Reeves that anybody ever saw.
Be excellent to each other and party on dudes.
-adam
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http://www.projectsandimas.com/faq.html
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San Dimas FAQ
Basics
What is Project San Dimas?
Project "San Dimas" is the code name for a new eBay desktop application.
"Desktop application," what exactly do you mean by that?
That means an application doesn't run in a web browser. Other examples of desktop applications include Word, iTunes, and Skype.
When will San Dimas be released?
We are working hard on it, and it will be sent out to the first set of beta users as soon as it is ready.
You didn't answer the question.
Sorry, that's all I can say right now.
How do I get it?
Sign up for the beta at www.projectsandimas.com. The sooner you sign up, the sooner you will get into the beta. So sign up. Right now. Do it.
How do I keep up-to-date on the project?
Read the weblog.
Is it an official eBay product, or is it just a prototype?
Yes, San Dimas is an "official" eBay product. However, since it is currently in beta it is not a supported product, meaning that you won't be able to get technical support through eBay customer service during the beta period.
So is this going to be one of those "forever in beta" projects?
No way. We aren't using the "beta" designation as a marketing gimmick.
Features
What features are in San Dimas?
We are currently developing three main types of features. First: the "core" eBay buying features, including search, browse, watch list, and bidding/buy it now. Second: unique desktop-specific features, such as alerts and a browsing history. And third: features such as checkout and feedback that are integral to the eBay experience, and that if they weren't included would require you to go back to the eBay website on a regular basis.
What about selling?
We are planning a simple selling feature for San Dimas, targeted strictly at "casual," non-professional sellers. However, this feature will not be included in the initial beta release.
What about features x, y, z, etc...?
The San Dimas roadmap is very flexible. While we have certain features in mind, once the beta is out we will rely very heavily on the feedback of our users to determine what new features we implement, how we change existing ones, and even which features we remove.
Will it run on a Mac?
Yes, San Dimas will run on both Windows (XP and Vista) and the Mac (OSX 10.4 or higher).
What are the minimum system requirements to run San Dimas?
We don't know for sure yet, since we haven't done performance tuning. Informal performance tests have shown that it can run with acceptable performance on most any computer.
Technology
I'm interested in the technology... tell me more
OK. San Dimas is built on the Apollo platform from Adobe. Apollo allows developers to use Flash, HTML, and PDF to build desktop applications. Apollo allows applications to run cross-platform (Windows and Mac, and Linux in the future), and it provides the ability for internet-connected applications to run "offline" (without a continuous internet connection).
How does San Dimas work? How does it get the data from eBay?
San Dimas uses eBay Web Services to communicate with eBay. Web services are a mechanism by which client applications communicate with a server via a standard network protocol to exchange data via a well-understood format like XML. In fact, there is nothing preventing other companies or developers from creating applications like San Dimas, using the web services just like we do. You can learn more about this at the eBay Developers Program website. |
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http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/entry/Feature-Highlight-Popular-Searches-In-Search-Box/_W0QQidZ215751010
Feature Highlight: Popular Searches In Search Box
I promised that I'd blog about features in San Dimas, and the first one up is very simple. In the search box, when you start typing a few characters, a drop-down menu appears showing popular searches that match.
This has a few benefits - one is that if you happen to be looking for something that is on the list, you can click directly on it and save time. But what I like it for best is for finding stuff to buy that I didn't even know that I needed. The other day I found "cushman" was one of the top "cu" keywords. If you are not familiar with Cushman utility vehicles, you may be surprised what you find when you search for it.
San Dimas is not the first application to have this kind of feature, but we are looking in a few areas to improve on the basic model of showing popular searches in this way. The first is integrating a user's own past searches in the same drop down as the general purpose popular searches. We are toying around with various ideas on how to do this. The main question is whether to have a single merged list or to have a single list that intermixes personal with popular search terms. This is the kind of thing that is hard to form an opinion on until you see it in action, and even I won't be sure which I prefer until it is actually implemented in the product. Leave a note in the comments with your thoughts.
-Alan
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For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
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From eBay Stores Forum
eBay Coming to Your Desktop ...
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000389289&tstart=0&mod=1182446652037
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wayoutwestusa2 (78 ) Jun-21-07 07:03 PDT
Currently in Beta (course, that's kinda like the entire eBay site, eh?), so now's the chance for all store owners get their voices heard regarding any issues (hidden store items, etc)
eBay client for your desktop. Instead of browsing to the site via the web, it's a program that you run on your computer and it will interface directly with eBay.
http://www.projectsandimas.com/
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elonica (0 ) Jun-21-07 09:26 PDT 1 of
And sellers need this because...???? Just to have another download on their hard drive? I am not a specialist so can someone more computer savvy come and explain - does this eBay client have something to do with eBay servers overload, does it mean seller's computers are going to host part of the data that now ebay hosts or I don't get this right?
"It provides a new search interface, a fun way to bid, access to your personal eBay history, and much more."
Words like "new search" and "fun" give me a bad gut feeling...
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sandrarn83 (2690 ) Jun-21-07 09:28 PDT 2 of
Yes and Ebay wants me to download their buggy software on my new pristine website so we can "drive traffic to Ebay". YEP! pigs will be flying first too.
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19yearoldcat (19 ) Jun-21-07 09:40 PDT 3 of
sorry
not interested
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postcardsandmore (4312 ) Jun-21-07 09:48 PDT 4 of
It looks like something for buyers only.
And, those words "new search" just made me feel ill!
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wayoutwestusa2 (78 ) Jun-21-07 09:54 PDT 5 of
I thought it of interest for sellers because of this
We are sharing this project in the very early stages because we want your input
A chance to give them feedback about how crappy the search is before they release it.
Whether it'll make a difference or not, dunno (and prolly wont) but if you dont try to make it known that youre not finding the stuff you want (hint: store items)... After all, the chance if getting it changed after it's officially released is even slimmer.
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elonica (0 ) Jun-21-07 10:00 PDT 6 of
wayoutwestusa2, they do not need our input cus they know better, they do what they want to do no matter what.
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postcardsandmore (4312 ) Jun-21-07 10:00 PDT 7 of
In Ebayland I have found that the chances of getting anything changed once it's been offered in test mode is slim and none!
Test means..it's a done deal. This is a period for you all to complain and just get over it because it is here to stay!
The good news about the desktop feature is that everyone and their dog is offering a desktop feature, a toolbar etc and people are getting turned off by the whole thing.
My daughter took everything off hers and refuses to download anymore wonderful new desktop features that clutter up the space and eat up the memory (even on a brand new machine).
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frantichippie (12 ) Jun-21-07 10:13 PDT 8 of
I think it's totally cool! eBay has opened up their API to developers in some amazing ways, prepare to see lots of cool new apps like this.
There is even a remote bidding API!
Susie
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postcardsandmore (4312 ) Jun-21-07 10:18 PDT 9 of
Susie, see how cool you think it is if the "new search" is "best match" and your items never ever show up because you are a small seller with few page views therefore not popular and therefore no page views and therefore no possibility of ever being one of the popular choices!
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elonica (0 ) Jun-21-07 10:24 PDT 10 of
Check this other thread about Trojan/virus alerts with the new store templates:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000389221&tstart=0&mod=1182444171157
Every download is potentially dangerous especially if you do not trust the company very much. About 2 years ago I made the stupid mistake to take a 3rd party survey on the ebay site, my computer went on fire, almost crushed, I got furious because I did not expect eBay to do this to me! So now I wouldn't download anything coming from ebay, period.
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world_securities (4918 ) Jun-21-07 11:35 PDT 11 of
Would bet eBay will use this opportunity to reduce load on their own servers.
The additional power of 100 million Buyer computers.
eBayNet
Distributed computing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_computing
Distributed computing is a method of computer processing in which different parts of a program run simultaneously on two or more computers that are communicating with each other over a network. Distributed computing is a type of parallel computing. But the latter term is most commonly used to refer to processing in which different parts of a program run simultaneously on two or more processors that are part of the same computer. While both types of processing require that a program be parallelized—divided into sections that can run simultaneously, distributed computing also requires that the division of the program take into account the different environments on which the different sections of the program will be running.
Drawbacks and disadvantages
If not planned properly, a distributed system can decrease the overall reliability of computations if the unavailability of a node can cause disruption of the other nodes. Leslie Lamport famously quipped that: "A distributed system is one in which the failure of a computer you didn't even know existed can render your own computer unusable."
Many types of computation are not well suited for distributed environments, typically owing to the amount of network communication or synchronization that would be required between nodes. If bandwidth, latency, or communication requirements are too significant, then the benefits of distributed computing may be negated and the performance may be worse than a non-distributed environment.
The effectiveness of a distributed computing project is therefore determined largely by the sophistication of the project creators.
Grid computing
A grid uses the resources of many separate computers connected by a network (usually the Internet) to solve large-scale computation problems. Most use idle time on many thousands of computers throughout the world. Such arrangements permit handling of data that would otherwise require the power of expensive supercomputers or would have been impossible to analyze.
"By the time Skynet became self-aware it had spread into millions of computer servers across the planet. Ordinary computers in office buildings, dorm rooms; everywhere. It was software; in cyberspace. There was no system core; it could not be shutdown." John Connor, Terminator 3
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wayoutwestusa2 (78 ) Jun-21-07 11:45 PDT 12 of
they do not need our input cus they know better, they do what they want to do no matter what.
In Ebayland I have found that the chances of getting anything changed once it's been offered in test mode is slim and none!
Youre both most likely correct. I just figured that since there might be a slim chance of effecting some change before the gadget gets finalized, that it might be worth messing with.
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elonica (0 ) Jun-21-07 12:00 PDT 13 of
world_securities, thanks for your post. I'm not familiar with the term "Distributed computing" but I'm familiar with the "Grid" thingy as I'm a Second Life user. The system is highly unstable and buggy, it effects not only your in world (Second Life) experience but your overall computer performance. Since I downloaded SL on my desktop I started losing my wireless Internet connection and in the end it just could not be restored at all, still wondering how to deal with this. But Second Life needs the Grid because this is, I think, the only way to create their virtual reality.
Keeping in mind all the problems eBay has NOW I can only imagine the mess that this eBay client will cause. Not to mention how bright is their idea to use YOUR computer instead of buying new servers.
Mia
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postcardsandmore (4315 ) Jun-21-07 12:13 PDT 14 of
Youre both most likely correct. I just figured that since there might be a slim chance of effecting some change before the gadget gets finalized, that it might be worth messing with
Point well taken. You just caught me in one of contrary moods due to the "now you see it now you don't" nature of search testing and store items.
My comments were in no way meant for you. I have always found your postings very helpful and informative.
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wayoutwestusa2 (78 ) Jun-21-07 17:12 PDT 15 of
^ aw shucks, PC&M. Youre too kind. I've always found your posts very helpful and infomative as well.
And you're probably right. Sometimes I just tend to forget that ebay has that corporate mindset of 'only the people in charge know anything' and actually hope that they might listen.
It's my cat's fault, he stole my tinfoil hat
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savoir-faire08 (58 ) Jun-21-07 17:45 PDT 16 of
eBay Coming to Your Desktop
Certainly not to MINE
I would never download that product, after what I have read on the board yesterday, about the Trojan virus in the store template, who knows what isin the desktop software? I am paranoid about downloads, so if you think differently, go for IT!
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clact (3593 ) Jun-21-07 18:18 PDT 17 of
I think you are missing the point. It is your customers that should have your store on their desktop. As a matter of fact I just suggested the stores people that the widget should be able to be emailed or popped up somewhere. Why would someone have to go through all the trouble of finding you again when they can have their eBay search for your store right in front of them.
Unrelated, to eBay a client developed something like this. Ironically the tech guy came to eBay and tried to get people interested in it here. It was a little different than what we have seen but represented an always "On" channel on the desktop. Anytime a customer wanted to see their "logo" on any item they would open this channel and see their logo on any one of thousands of items and new items. Sales soared. Many times the customers were doing the company's sales for them by saying "your bar glasses could look like this" . Designers started using the tool as part of their work for marketing plans etc.
Something is not even out yet and already you give it zero chance...
Ebay is the largest online marketplace in the world, Stores are the largest online mall in the world. Next to Visa, Paypal is the 2nd largest online payment solution in the world, Skype is the most downloaded and used telecommunications product in the world.
Some things are coming here that you will not see on your 3rd party websites for years if ever. So at the very least as some say you need to stick around to "use" ebay to feed leads to your products.
But the most successful will capitalize on the world markets and do something amazing here.
There are tons of things to be excited about, pick and choose what you like or dont like. Just keep in mind most of us are small store sellers being shown the state of the art in internet technology, and that is a good thing.
Marty
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catbooks1940s (1169 ) Jun-21-07 20:00 PDT 18 of
Something is not even out yet and already you give it zero chance...
because ebay has lost our TRUST. trust they are even capable of putting out any product that doesn't have signficant bugs and glitches. (except this would be our computers at risk.) trust that they wouldn't misuse the power this would give them. trust, period.
::waves at wayoutwest::
yeah,ebay's idea of getting feedback is, they present their newst, and if you say anything except 'great, fabulous widget/idea!' they go deaf.
joan
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homedecorstudios (11 ) Jun-21-07 20:10 PDT 19 of
No thanks I have google desktop.
Ebay is the largest online marketplace in the world, Stores are the largest online mall in the world. Next to Visa, Paypal is the 2nd largest online payment solution in the world, Skype is the most downloaded and used telecommunications product in the world.
I don't care how big it is if there are no paying customers in it.
Some things are coming here that you will not see on your 3rd party websites for years if ever. So at the very least as some say you need to stick around to "use" ebay to feed leads to your products.
My websites have almost zero glitches, no downtime, no non paying customers, no FVF fees, no listing fees, no nigerians...Basically No headaches. Your right it will be years if ever before I have these problems outside ebay.
Just keep in mind most of us are small store sellers being shown the state of the art in internet technology, and that is a good thing.
Go to any techie show, Ebay is not cutting edge. They just BUY the cutting edge after someone else starts it.
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world_securities (4918 ) Jun-21-07 20:19 PDT 20 of
clact
I think you are missing the point. It is your customers that should have your store on their desktop.
And they already do. It's called a link.
http://stores.ebay.com/STORENAMEHERE
No overhead, and a part of every browser on the planet.
What eBay is proposing is a dedicated front end. Taking processes eBay's servers already handle, and offload that processing onto individual computers. In effect eBay receives free processing cycles, and the individual who downloads the front end takes a performance hit as their processing cycles become eBay's.
clact
Something is not even out yet and already you give it zero chance...
People aren't giving it a zero chance. They're being very picky as to what gets loaded onto their computer. The old buzz term being 'practicing safe computing.' This is no longer the 80's where new computer owners loaded every new routine into memory they could get their hands on.
You have to be very brave to load software, that even eBay says has bugs, on your pristine business systems.
Free advice. Anyone who chooses to do so, backup EVERYTHING first.
It would be very informative to see how many Wall Street types that would load this on their Business systems, right now.
Why don't you wait until San Dimas passes eBay internal beta testing? Because I guarantee anyone who deals with computers on 'the deep levels' will be waiting. Those same individuals and organizations will be waiting for test results from the usual places: PC Magazine, InfoWorld, MacWorld, etal.
clact
Some things are coming here that you will not see on your 3rd party websites for years if ever.
You underestimate the inventiveness of these 3rd party people and organizations.
Stanford students beat eBay on Firefox toolbar
http://www.grooveking.com/blog/2007/05/stanford-students-beat-ebay-on-firefox.html
These are students, 3rd party if you will, beating out eBay's programming brain trust. Superior finished tool bar versus eBay so-so beta.
clact
But the most successful will capitalize on the world markets and do something amazing here.
Actually "the most successful will capitalize on the world markets and do something amazing" period.
Sam Walton
Bill Gates
Steve Jobs
Gordon Moore
Donald Trump
Hope some of you get the point that it's YOUR large/medium/small Business. You need to make decisions. Letting unknown people make your business decisions, without your complete acceptance, is future disaster in the making.
clact
most of us are small store sellers being shown the state of the art in internet technology, and that is a good thing.
Sorry, what eBay is doing is 'novel', but it isn't really state of the art.
Store sellers who want to stay current, Read. Read a lot. A extremely short basic recommended reading list:
Wall Street Journal
Business Week
PC Magazine, MacWorld, InfoWorld, etc.
You want to see business? You want to see technology? Read unfiltered material.
As a business cradle, eBay is not a bad place to apprentice. But always consider the long term. Staying or going, using or not using, should be what You want for the long term.
"The Earth is the cradle of mankind, but one cannot live in the cradle forever."
~Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
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elonica (0 ) Jun-21-07 20:48 PDT 21 of
Yeah, "state of the art" glitches, no one can beat this, LOL
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psychocat1959 (268 ) Jun-21-07 21:00 PDT 22 of
I have one word for this .
Scary!
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joint_runner (Private ) Jun-21-07 21:28 PDT 23 of
being shown the state of the art in internet technology
Marty, Marty, Marty. I mean no disrespect, but what color is the sky in your world? eBay's had 10 years and they can't even make a lister work properly. Now suddenly they are going "state of the art"? C'mon.
Pretty well any reputable third party software, etc, makes their technology look like a dinosaur.
JMPO.
As transparent as eBay itself.
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bhearsch (302 ) Jun-21-07 21:42 PDT 24 of
Popular searches in Search Box?
http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/entry/Feature-Highlight-Popular-Searches-In-Search-Box/_W0QQidZ215751010
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world_securities (4919 ) Jun-22-07 10:55 PDT 25 of
A little comparison history of project names, and a HUH?? Save that last link data. It might disappear.
Project Apollo
Lunar Landing, Man on the Moon, 20 July 1969
Apollo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo
Apollo is the son of Zeus and Leto, and the twin brother of the chaste huntress Artemis, who took the place of Selene in some myths as goddess of the moon.
In Roman mythology he is known as Apollo and increasingly, especially during the third century BC, as Apollo Helios he became identified with Sol, the Sun.
Apollo was an oracular god. He was the prophetic deity of the Delphic Oracle, as well as one of the most important and many-sided of the Olympian deities. Apollo also had dominion over colonists
Technically the project should have been named Artemis, but you get the idea.
Apollo Program
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program
The Apollo program was the third human spaceflight program undertaken by NASA, on behalf of the United States of America. Its goal — “to land humans on the Moon and return them safely to Earth
Project Constellation
Orion (mythology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_%28mythology%29
In Greek mythology, Orion was traditionally a great huntsman, who was set amongst the stars as the constellation called Orion. He is also described as a great hunter in the Odyssey, when Odysseus meets him in the underworld.
Ares
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares
The Romans identified him as Mars, the Roman god of war
Orion (spacecraft)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)
Orion is a spacecraft design currently under development by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Each Orion spacecraft will carry a crew of four to six astronauts, and will be launched by the new Ares I launch vehicle. Both Orion and Ares I are elements of NASA's Project Constellation, which plans to send human explorers back to the Moon by 2020
Project San Dimas
Beta release 20 June 2007
Project San Dimas Beta: Cleaning Up eBay’s UI
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/04/16/projectsandimas-public-beta-cleaning-up-ebays-ui/
April 16 2007
Saint Dismas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismas
Saint Dismas (sometimes spelled Dysmas or only Dimas, or even Dumas), also known as the Good Thief or the Penitent Thief, is the apocryphal name given to one of the thieves who was crucified alongside Christ according to the Gospel of Luke 23:39-43.
The Mystery Behind the Name "San Dimas"
http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/entry/The-Mystery-Behind-the-Name-San-Dimas/_W0QQcommentsyncidZ0QQidZ219800010
Posted May-22-07 08:57:24 PDT
My name is Adam Trachtenberg, one of the people working on Project San Dimas.
One of the questions I often hear when speaking about Project San Dimas is: "Why is San Dimas called San Dimas?" Good question. So, I thought I'd let everyone into the answer.
At eBay, we like to use code names for products before they go live. At the time we started working on San Dimas, there was another product nicknamed "Baldwin Park".
If you don't live in Southern California, Baldwin Park is a suburb of Los Angeles. So, when trying to come up with a name for this project, Alan decided to look at neighboring LA towns -- and came across "San Dimas."
San Dimas, of course, is the hometown Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted Logan, best known for their work in the band "Wyld Stallyns."
That's right, it's a reference to "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure", that great work of late 80s cinema, and the first movie with Keanu Reeves that anybody ever saw.
Be excellent to each other and party on dudes.
-adam
"We're not asking you to spy. We're just asking you to steal." Noah Bain, It Takes A Thief, 1968
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savoir-faire08 (58 ) Jun-22-07 11:51 PDT 26 of
Just wanted to thank you, world securities, for responding to Marty's long stretched email in response to my post. I could not have said it better. Generally, I enjoy Marty's posts as they have some good info in them. This time, we disagreed. I think one can not be cautious enough on-line. Thank you wolrd securities!
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bhearsch (302 ) Jun-22-07 17:17 PDT 27 of
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/06/14/eBay-store-owners-voice-concerns_1.html
With Finding 2.0, eBay wants to improve the relevance of search results without sacrificing what Durzy calls "serendipity," which eBay considers a key ingredient of the eBay experience: Stumbling upon a product that happily surprises you.
Do you suppose Hani Durzy was referring to the Popular Search showcased in eBay's new desktop application? It sure sounds similar to Alan Lewis' comments about the Popular Search feature:
http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/entry/Feature-Highlight-Popular-Searches-In-Search-Box/_W0QQidZ215751010
This has a few benefits - one is that if you happen to be looking for something that is on the list, you can click directly on it and save time. But what I like it for best is for finding stuff to buy that I didn't even know that I needed. The other day I found "cushman" was one of the top "cu" keywords. If you are not familiar with Cushman utility vehicles, you may be surprised what you find when you search for it.
serendipity = stumble upon? We used to call that BROWSING before eBay took it away.
Blanche
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clact (3594 ) Jun-22-07 18:54 PDT 28 of
Wow, now its the terminator software! I think that is getting too dramatic!
Speaking of the WSJ and BusinessWeek they both ran articles on it. I have read BW since my first year in college and a hint to anyone that age it keeps renewing at the college rate so dont give up your subscription. Its been 29 or 39 bucks a year for 20 years for me LOL
Dont worry about it crashing your computers though cause ill test it in Beta and If I go Poof youll know not to try it out.
With the negative possibilities there are some great things like it stores the category structure on your computer instead of recalling 20megs every time you need it on eBay.
The technology itself is praised by tech gurus mainly because it can be run across many platforms (Unix etc).
Heck for $400 for a Dell PC these days, you can have your whole eBay system seperate from anything else if you really wanted to.
I wish I saw the charity auctions sooner, the buyer got some good publicity for being the test rat for only $250 bucks!
Marty
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homedecorstudios (11 ) Jun-22-07 20:35 PDT 29 of
there are some great things like it stores the category structure on your computer instead of recalling 20megs every time you need it on eBay.
I never used ebay to list & have it all saved in Marketworks.
Heck for $400 for a Dell PC these days, you can have your whole eBay system seperate from anything else if you really wanted to.
Why waste time & money pouring over a ebay only computer?
Ebay is no longer the It thing or even that useful as a marketing tool. It just one of many ways to drive sales.
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world_securities (4919 ) Jun-22-07 21:25 PDT 30 of
clact
Wow, now its the terminator software! I think that is getting too dramatic!
It's a generalized description of networked computers put in fictional terms to provide an understandable analogy. Apparently if you understood that, so did the average computer user.
Frankly if you're trivializing the inherent abilities of the software, then obviously you don't understand how it works. But it would explain the fascination you have with it.
What you find so state of the art, is an old concept. In 'computer years' anyway.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/client-server-faq/section-11.html
The distribution of applications and business logic across multiple processing platforms. Distributed processing implies that processing will occur on more than one processor in order for a transaction to be completed. In other words, processing is distributed across two or more machines and the processes are most likely not running at the same time, i.e. each process performs part of an application in a sequence. Often the data used in a distributed processing environment is also distributed across platforms.
The list of fallacies generally came about at Sun Microsystems. Peter Deutsch, one of the original Sun "Fellows," is credited with penning the first seven fallacies in 1994.
Fallacies of Distributed Computing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing
The Fallacies of Distributed Computing are a set of common but flawed assumptions made by programmers when first developing distributed applications. The fallacies are summarized as follows:
1. The network is reliable.
2. Latency is zero.
3. Bandwidth is infinite.
4. The network is secure.
5. Topology doesn't change.
6. There is one administrator.
7. Transport cost is zero.
8. The network is homogeneous.
clact
Speaking of the WSJ and BusinessWeek they both ran articles on it.
Repeating eBay's press releases. You're free to cite the articles.
Given the official beta was released June 20th, any articles released before this is questionable as to what was tested. And Wall Street Journal and Business Week are not known for being computer test beds.
The real testing by die hard professional testers will play out over several months.
clact
Dont worry about it crashing your computers though cause ill test it in Beta and If I go Poof youll know not to try it out.
You're implying that you have the technical expertise of, say ZD Labs or similar testing facilities. Do you?
Leaving out a discussion of your computer testing background, try this tiny simple list.
What's your baseline system configuration? Will you run San Dimas in an isolated network? If not, will you determine if San Dimas actively seeks out other systems?
Can you provide figures regarding cycles used, memory used, network access, storage used, bandwidth used, search time, pre and post? Can you provide the 'hooks' San Dimas sinks into the operating system? Would you recognize a crash caused by San Dimas or something unrelated?
Can you provide more than, "loaded it and ran fine?"
clact
With the negative possibilities
Great to see you recognize this. Frankly I know no reputable professional that would recommend loading betaware on ANY Business Production system. It's irresponsible.
clact
there are some great things like it stores the category structure on your computer instead of recalling 20megs every time you need it on eBay.
Only "20megs?" Projecting needs outward, more like oh 10GB? to get a good test environment. Pushing perhaps to 100GB and more of a buyers computer resources, to be utilized by eBay in this distributed processing front end.
Were eBay's server architecture as state of the art as you say San Dimas is, this would not be a problem. Since you do have inside information, thank you for confirming what was said earlier. eBay is using this front end software to load a buyer's computer with eBay data and use the buyers computer cycles.
Then again, anyone who knows about distributed processing would have figured those things out already. This 'state-of-the-art' process is older than eBay. Abet eBay is using state of the art equipment to implement it.
Once you allow an outside system to dictate what it needs on your own system, the needs continue to expand to the maximums. Worse case in a parasitic relationship, the user's needs are subordinated to the needs of the single process. I'd call it vampireware, but the term already exists.
This is not a bad thing, if you really need the application. Any 'only load 250 GB' Halo players understand the feeling?
But is San Dimas a must need application? Given portable wireless Internet access, and browsers and bookmarks?
clact
Heck for $400 for a Dell PC these days
Heck, most people don't own computers because of that 'low' price. If this is eBay's assumption, that buyers won't have a problem with San Dimas because computers are 'cheap', it's a bad one.
As a side note; readers some help here. Long ago there was an in passing remark from corporate about the construct of the 'eBay computer.' Any notes or links regarding this would be welcome.
clact
you can have your whole eBay system seperate from anything else if you really wanted to.
Did you read what you wrote? You essentially said 'eBay dedicated computers will access eBay.'
IF this is the direction eBay is collectively thinking, and you tend to get eBay insider information, that's megalomania or hubris.
megalomania -
A mental condition where the patient is exhibits delusions of grandeur, patient has a greatly enhanced opinion of himself.
hubris - exaggerated pride or self-confidence.
Essentially you're saying the eBayOS?
MicroSoft made that argument for their operating system, but as can be seen, most of you do need MS OS to get anything done on your computer*. But tying up a computer, remember most owners have only one, dedicated to eBayOS?
* easy there: Mac Q G5, G4, & 2 AMD Dual Core, etc.
Over the coming 12 months, the sales pitch for that should be interesting.
"HAL was told to lie - by people who find it easy to lie. HAL doesn't know how." Dr. Chandra, 2010
.
.
frantichippie (14 ) Jun-23-07 05:30 PDT 31 of
Frankly if you're trivializing the inherent abilities of the software, then obviously you don't understand how it works. But it would explain the fascination you have with it.
Where are you getting that this new software is even based on distributed networking?
How would a distributed network even function with a website like eBay anyway? eBay runs off a huge database server farm, so in order to distribute their network calls to all the people using this software, they would have to store a little chunk of the database on everyone's computer and then when someone searches and each of our computers return a chunk of the results?
Susie
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monkey*see*monkey*do (Private ) Jun-23-07 07:00 PDT 32 of
So at the very least as some say you need to stick around to "use" ebay to feed leads to your products.
I've heard "stick around", things will be better for a year now. Guess what? They aren't. eBay is getting worse with no relief in site.
eBay has proven once again that they will continue throwing money out there for stuff like this instead of fixing the REAL issues regarding the CORE of ebay.
They want to reignite auctions and core? What exactly have they done to fix any of it? Nothing.
I am sick and tired of search changes, sick and tired of their so called tests, I'm sick and tired of their inability to maintain servers and make items visible to any searcher anywhere at any time of the day. I am sick and tired that eBay doesn't get it.
Every new tool they launch is useless to me unless they fix the real issues first.
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world_securities (4920 ) Jun-23-07 13:37 PDT 33 of
frantichippie
Where are you getting that this new software is even based on distributed networking?
I'm going to use 'distributed' in extremely general terms. Please do not confuse the use of these general descriptions for the actual depictions of specific concept terms.
Let's start with removing the misnomer that equates 'distributed' to massive. This large scale may have it's origin in the book (1966) and movie (1970) "Colossus: The Forbin Project."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project
"built a gigantic and fantastically advanced supercomputer, called "Colossus", to control all of the United States and Allied nuclear weapons systems"
Basically sentient computer taking over/distributing itself into every computer on the planet and threatening humanity with extinction. "Obey me and live, or disobey and die." Colossus.
Today, 'distributed networking' is common due to small scale implementations. For instance, powered on computers cable connected are being used minutely for distributed processing of the cable providers computers. It's in the user agreement, that polling your computer and adding data to your hard drives. Simple monitoring of the entire cable network using the individual computers as one of the monitoring devices.
On one of the other ends of distributed processing, there are games and simulated worlds. Think Halo, World of Warcraft, Second Life, etc. Were this type of application played completely on the host servers, the genre would have died last century. Think how long it takes to download a large photo on your system, then image the hundreds of pictures necessary to generate the illusion of a moving object.
A network game depends on the processing power of it's servers and the processing power of the it's user computers. Distributed processing.
The network server sends the bare minimum of data to a user's computer. The user's computer has preloaded the application that is able to use the server constant real time data stream. User computer translates the server data to a moving visual image. The quality of the display image is almost entirely a function of the user's computer capabilities. A normal application will allow scalability. A system with bare minimum capability will have bare minimum display. A top of the line system will show the maximum possible.
The tradeoff is remarkable. Were a company dealing with 100 users, the choices are to have a supercomputer capable of processing the entire needs of 100 users internally and pushing out a 100 user wide data stream, or an average stand alone server servicing the needs of 100 users externally using far less bandwidth.
Moving to eBay.
frantichippie
How would a distributed network even function with a website like eBay anyway? eBay runs off a huge database server farm, so in order to distribute their network calls to all the people using this software, they would have to store a little chunk of the database on everyone's computer and then when someone searches and each of our computers return a chunk of the results?
That is what clact said.
clact
With the negative possibilities there are some great things like it stores the category structure on your computer instead of recalling 20megs every time you need it on eBay.
When you do a search through eBay.com and get a Category Page, an eBay Server is generating this data. Not your computer.
What clact described, requires eBay to have loaded on your system, the desktop application and data necessary to generate the Category Page. And requires your computer to do the computational work. Because the data changes one microsecond to the next, your computer would be configured to continually poll for these changes.
This is distributed processing. Your computer does more work, eBay's servers do less.
Some excerpts direct from the San Dimas people.
http://www.projectsandimas.com/faq.html
What features are in San Dimas?
We are currently developing three main types of features. First: the "core" eBay buying features, including search, browse, watch list, and bidding/buy it now. Second: unique desktop-specific features, such as alerts and a browsing history. And third: features such as checkout and feedback that are integral to the eBay experience, and that if they weren't included would require you to go back to the eBay website on a regular basis.
How does San Dimas work? How does it get the data from eBay?
San Dimas uses eBay Web Services to communicate with eBay. Web services are a mechanism by which client applications communicate with a server via a standard network protocol to exchange data via a well-understood format like XML. In fact, there is nothing preventing other companies or developers from creating applications like San Dimas, using the web services just like we do. You can learn more about this at the eBay Developers Program website.
Despite what is being inferred, eBay does need a new user interface. And San Dimas, eBay 2.0, was born in 2006.
No software will take over the world; at least not today. They are tools. The tool of fire can light the way to rescue, or destroy billions.
It's your choice what that tool will do.
And, how eBay goes about implementing a new tool (user interface) is a matter that should be watched closely and discussed openly.
Leaving eBay and San Dimas to Join Ribbit - Rob Abbot
http://robabbott.com/2007/04/16/leaving-ebay-and-san-dimas-to-join-ribbit/
Going, Going…Everywhere
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_25/b4039072.htm?campaign_id=rss_tech
eBay’s Chief Disruption Officer: UI to eBay’s “commerce operating system” could be left to others
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=367
eBay San Dimas and Adobe Apollo
http://robabbott.com/2007/03/19/ebay-san-dimas-and-adobe-apollo/
eBay developer conference: San Dimas desktop and APIs
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9727966-7.html
San Dimas Project Beta Overview
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/06/19/san-dimas-project-beta-overview/
How eBay is developing with Adobe’s Apollo project
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Stewart/?p=197
Microsoft, Adobe Set A Collision Course on Web
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117668634225970835-FVRZcPo5bJpxrx7Rw6KfN6j_UFY_2007
Project San Dimas Beta: Cleaning Up eBay’s UI
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/04/16/projectsandimas-public-beta-cleaning-up-ebays-ui/
EBay plans Web site overhaul
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2007/06/20/2003366096
eBay San Dimas Blog
http://blogs.ebay.com/projectsandimas/
Adam Trachtenberg is eBay's Senior Manager of Evangelism and Disruptive Innovation.
http://videos.webpronews.com/2007/06/13/ebaydev-adam-trachtenberg-on-ebays-new-platform-extensions/
30 Minutes with Adam Trachtenberg
http://devzone.zend.com/node/view/id/781
Colossus: The Forbin Project, 1970
"In time, you will come to regard me not only with respect and awe, but with love." Colossus
"Never." Dr. Forbin
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clact (3595 ) Jun-23-07 16:05 PDT 34 of
Its funny how Skype has 200 million users or something using this type of system as well as other companies using VOIP. And recently 400,000 plus computers were all over the news with a SETI screensaver that was searching for life in outer space when it popped up in another example of using this type of computing.
I did love that Forbin Project movie though, that was an excellent movie!
Thanks for putting all the articles in one place , since I missed some of those :)
Marty
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world_securities (4920 ) Jun-23-07 19:02 PDT 35 of
clact
Its funny how Skype has
/advertising removed/
using this type of system
"It’s free to download and free to call other people"
It can be relatively easy to get a huge user base, when the service is FREE.
Your basis for "this type of system" please. The protocols for San Dimas and Skype are not the same.
2003
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1402368,00.asp
The service uses a peer-to-peer networking scheme, but rather than sharing files, connected PCs help route one another's calls. Skype also uses that routing technology to get around the need for (and cost of) central servers and directories
In the very generic short description, computers are used as glorified routers, not distributed processing nodes.
And you neglect to mention that San Dimas is completely eBay in house. Birth to beta is less than a year.
eBay bought 4+ year old (2003) Skype technology and did not create it. Free phone calls placed from a personal computer is not new or novel. And I think pre-21st Century.
clact
And recently 400,000 plus computers were all over the news with a SETI screensaver that was searching for life in outer space when it popped up in another example of using this type of computing.
Thought you would bring this up.
SETI@home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI
SETI@home is an extremely popular distributed computing project that was launched by U.C. Berkeley in May 1999, and is heavily sponsored by The Planetary Society. Any individual can become involved with SETI research by downloading and running the SETI@home software package, which then runs signal analysis on a "work unit" of data recorded from the central 2.5 MHz wide band of the SERENDIP IV instrument. The results are then automatically reported back to UC Berkeley. Over 5 million computer users in more than 200 countries have signed up for SETI@home and have collectively contributed over 19 billion hours of computer processing time. As of December 4, 2006 the Seti@Home grid operates at 257 TeraFLOPS, making it equivalent to the second fastest supercomputer on Earth.
This is a voluntary effort by computer owners. With open software created by scientists for altruistic purposes.
San Dimas is a commercial enterprise, with closed architecture.
http://www.projectsandimas.com/faq.html
What are the minimum system requirements to run San Dimas?
We don't know for sure yet
SETI is a eight year old example to business of how much FREE processing power is available. The question is how to tap that power.
No later than 2005, eBay already had distributed processing within all of its internal computers. I believe the comment from one of the architects was along the lines of providing more processing power than the sum of the parts. I believe eBay markets the process.
When the computing power of the servers is maxed out, an increase in servers, increases the processing power. You can see indirectly the amount eBay is willing to spend on new machines in their quarterly budget statements.
When faced with the need for more processing power (and what business does not need more), and low cost, it takes no stretch of the imagination for someone at eBay to think, '100 million free processors.'
At it's very basic usage, San Dimas is capable of delivering that free power. Any process that an eBay buyer's computer does, means less processing for eBay's servers. Postponing and reducing the need for massive hardware upgrades.
Of course it remains to be seen what San Dimas is capable of for eBay and users.
"The importance of this application should not be overlooked. While the project goal is to drive metrics on the eBay Buying experience" Rob Abbott, San Dimas
From the slimy opposite end of distributed processing. A few malicious examples.
http://www.smith.edu/its/tara/viruses/parasiteware.html
"Parasiteware", also known as "spyware" or "adware", is unwanted software that installs itself on your computer without your knowledge or consent when you view webpages or download files from the Internet. Parasiteware can dramatically slow your computer's performance, bombard you with pop-ups, or even cause you to lose your Internet access altogether. The most malicious types may take over your browser and reset your hompepage, or worse yet, allow outsiders to access personal information on your computer.
Even if you think you always browse the Internet responsibly, you are not immune from these pests. Parasiteware-writers have found many ways to sneak their files onto your computer without your knowledge or consent. According to Microsoft, parasiteware and other deceptive software is responsible for more than 50% of Windows operating systems failures, costing millions of dollars in computer support each year.
FBI tries to fight zombie hordes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6752853.stm
The initiative is part of an ongoing project to thwart the use of hijacked home computers, or zombies, as launch platforms for hi-tech crimes.
The FBI has found networks of zombie computers being used to spread spam, steal IDs and attack websites.
"Well, I got good news and bad news, girls. The good news is your dates are here."
"What's the bad news?" Karen
"They're dead." Det. Ray Cameron
Night of the Creeps, 1986
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