For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
FYI apologist post_a_note aka 20th_century_art posts spin and damage control supporting eBay ...
//
From eBay Stores Forum
Servers
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000388662&tstart=0&mod=1182361481804
.
mgkmkl (22 ) Jun-20-07 00:09 PDT
Hey everyone!
I have just opened up a store and am getting everything set up, but I have been reading around this forum and what is all this stuff about being on different servers and not getting as many sales because of it?
Aren't everyone items viewable to all ebayers when they type in the keywords of the search?
Any advice on this subject would be much appreciated!
- Mike
.
mrbubbe2 (721 ) Jun-20-07 04:32 PDT 1 of
In short your items do not show in search. There is some criteria and it seems to be changing all the time and I find it hard to keep up. But if less than 30 or 20 items show in core stores may show at the bottom. Also they have been mixing in EE and other things so I am not 100% sure what is the rule today. Then also there is the spigot effect that is getting thrown around. This is something all together different to deal with.
Confused yet.... stick around a while.
joe
.
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 09:00 PDT 2 of
Like joe stated above...
And to answer your question, it appears lately that if you are somehow found you are only found in certain areas of the country at any given time...not the whole country...just certain parts. For me, last week my sales were only on the West Coast...mainly California, one Arizona, one Nevada...oh...and they didn't realize I had a store either...they purchased through auction...had to tell them I have a store. This week we have moved to the Mid states...namely...Illinois.
Few weeks before...Texas only.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07 .
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 09:01 PDT 3 of
Oh and before that...No sales in the U.S. only international (U.K. and Australia)
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 09:04 PDT 4 of
WOW I was on the international server for a while. Then I headed to the southern states and now I am primarily selling to CA buyers. Some days you wonder do they just have a map up on a wall and set the servers to where the dart lands on the map.
.
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 09:16 PDT 5 of
Some days you wonder do they just have a map up on a wall and set the servers to where the dart lands on the map.
LoL! 
I swear they do...I too was on the international server for a while. Prior to the greater U.K. area, I was in Italy and France. Then I travelled to the greater Singapore area. No U.S. during this period at all.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
.
post_a_note (0 ) Jun-20-07 09:18 PDT 6 of
I have no idea whether this server visibility issue is real or myth.
The majority of posts in these threads seem to be little more than speculation at best... total fiction at worst.
I have never done a search for my items and found them missing. I've never had a friend, acquaintance, or customer complain that they searched for my items and found them missing. I'm baffled. But I'm open to the possibility that there are server issues which I'm not aware of.
Frankly, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to servers and that sort of thing. Perhaps I need to bone up a bit. In any event, if anyone has a good layman's tutorial on this subject, I'm all ears.
But if all you have is "Last week all my sales came from the west coast and this week they're all from Florida." Well, I consider that absolutely meaningless. I had two sales from Canada yesterday. Would you conclude I was stuck on a Canadian server?
Disclaimer: This is a Posting ID. If you are uncomfortable with posting IDs, feel free to ignore this post. Thank you in advance.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 09:29 PDT 7 of
PAN I was always neutral on the search engine theory until recently. Shortly after Ebay made it a point to tell us they were going to be doing some real beta testing with their "findings" team I got my answer. I wound up on the international market and didn't have a single domestic sale. I still cringe waiting for the Hong Kong, Singapore, and UK pacages to arrive and my star ratings to drift in. I had ZERO and I mean ZERO domestic sales for days. That's unheard of at my level. I knew then that Ebay's ability to manipulate search was no longer a theory. It is a fact and Ebay has become a master at using it. They can shut any seller out of a market without a blink. It's been shown to me without a doubt. Now I want to know when they are going to start punishing sellers who they feel are misbehaving with these same "finding" methods. Probably already have. (Ebay by the way I can be bought! You just gotta find my greed factor to shut me up!)
.
rdora (85 ) Jun-20-07 09:47 PDT 8 ofFor awhile - until ebay took it off as "illegal coding" I have had the sitemeter.com little tool installed on my store page.
The little gadget show me who visited the store, how long they stayed, and WHERE - which area they come from.
I posted the result several time in this board, and there was absolutely no doubt that indeed several days all visitors come from East cost - except a handful exception- while another days they come from West coast, some days I had no another visitor beside Chicago area, then California, then mysteriously only UK.. or from Europe.
Now I'm not in any server seems like 
but to me it is not a myth that the search is artificially manipulated.
Dora
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 09:52 PDT 9 of
Dora I have no doubt you are right too. If you wouldn't mind could you email me some of those results I would love to pass them along to some friends.
.
monkey*see*monkey*do (Private ) Jun-20-07 09:53 PDT 10 of
When this server issue rose, 3 sellers that I am in a group with did a test. We all cleared our cashe, deleted cookies and searched the SAME term at the same time.
One person is in CA, one in Ohio and one in FL.
All 3 of us got different results.
Those results were also posted here and discussed to great lengths.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 09:58 PDT 11 of
monkey you got any screen shots of those threads?
.
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 09:59 PDT 12 of
PAN I was always neutral on the search engine theory until recently.
I was as well. I would see it here and there, but really didn't chalk it up to much because it was something that took place over a course of say 1 or 2 days and then sales would be from all over again.
I as well pretty much have had a pretty consitant sell through rate all year round. Lately though since all these special announcements and changes and whatever, I have noticed the same thing as sandrarn. I as well have never not had a U.S. sale during a given time frame. And the person who had bought from me from out of the "area" was a repeat customer who had gone directly to my store. They purchase from me often and don't search for my items at all. Most of the individuals I have contacted in regards to answering questions had no idea I even had a store until I told them, while another thought I only had like 12 molds listed in core when in fact I had 87 in core at that time and no they were not just listed either. I have not experienced sales like this in all the time I have been here. Yeah, there have been some times when things were slower than usual, but the few sales I had came from all over and things would pick up again after several days. Now, sales have been horrible and when something does come in they are all only in certain areas and spread out over a week or more. Then it moves to another area...same thing...then another...then out of the U.S. all together for an extended period of time.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
.
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 10:09 PDT 13 of
When this server issue rose, 3 sellers that I am in a group with did a test. We all cleared our cashe, deleted cookies and searched the SAME term at the same time.
I did a similar test too as well with a few people.
I am in Mass, had my sister in New York, my friend in Conn., another relative in North Carolina, and a friend in California. All of us reported different findings...I would like to add that the friend in Conn lives right across the Mass border 5 minutes away from me (I am on the Mass/Conn border) and we had gotten different results.
I have to agree with you as well Dora and monkey see...something is up, no doubt in my mind about it.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 10:11 PDT 14 of
I think that was the one that sent me over the edge as far as Ebay was concerned. I can neutralize any advantage Ebay gives an auction seller with my selling strategies. I can not compete when Ebay completely stacks the deck against me with the servers and visibility. I really think this needs to head out into the court system and to the buying public's eyes. I think Ebay's ability to alter search and visibility needs to publicly be addressed with the buying public so they can realize just exactly how Ebay is altering their buying habits and limiting what they are seeing.
.
rdora (85 ) Jun-20-07 10:11 PDT 15 of
Sandra I would but this was a while ago, and I don't have them anymore..
I thought about it reinstalling again until *opps*LOL or someone else might try it 
it is sitemeter.
Another interesting thing was to see that for over a month while I have it, there was not once the visitors numbers match the omniture numbers.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 10:14 PDT 16 of
Dora I think you might just have peaked Chop's interest what this comment "Another interesting thing was to see that for over a month while I have it, there was not once the visitors numbers match the omniture numbers" Were your stats higher or lower than the Omniture stats?
.
bribaiki (1041 ) Jun-20-07 10:20 PDT 17 of
I agree sandrarn...this is something that no seller can "adjust" to. How can you ? It's ridiculous. Even listing in core...I mean come on! How can I have 87 items in core and some see all 87, others only see say 40, while still another only sees 12 and others don't see me at all ? This just being an example, I have done searches with other posters here and I can say I have gotten different results than others and others got different results than mine, some had the same and we were all searching the same thing...there are many different posts about it here.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..."
Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
.
monkey*see*monkey*do (Private ) Jun-20-07 10:22 PDT 18 of
Sandra - uh, I will email you if it is ok.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 10:24 PDT 19 of
Money thank you it is most appreciated. Mail it please directly to my ISP. [email protected] by filling in the name please.
.
monkey*see*monkey*do (Private ) Jun-20-07 10:27 PDT 20 of
also - you are right. Many things we can overcome and adjust to but issues like that are impossible.
.
rdora (85 ) Jun-20-07 10:44 PDT 21 of
Sandra Omniture was ALWAYS much higher... not talking about a little but many time a 100 or more
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 10:50 PDT 22 of
That's been the general consensus of several sellers lately. That Omniture stats appear to be grossly inflated. Dora I must say you have been a delightful ray of sunshine for me today. It's refreshing to learn new things on these boards and I do every day that I come now. Thank you and I'll check out some of your software advice it's been great advice and will be heeded.
.
rdora (85 ) Jun-20-07 10:55 PDT 23 of
Sandra, someone might get away with it for awhile... I know I did LOL.. - of course it is very obvious why it is "illegal coding" when the site says that you can install it ANYWHERE but that's not IT
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 10:57 PDT 24 of
Oh I didn't plan to install on it on my site. Too many eyes and ears. I'll let others do that for me. I fully understand what you are saying and I appreciate the advice. It too will be heeded. Thanks again.
.
rdora (85 ) Jun-20-07 11:38 PDT 25 of
I never thought that you would LOL
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 11:40 PDT 26 of
ROFLMAO oh my Dora. I can hardly type.
.
catbooks1940s (1168 ) Jun-20-07 12:47 PDT 27 of
hmm, very interesting about omniture's stats being significantly higher than those reported on sitemeter.
I have never done a search for my items and found them missing.
pan, you wouldn't. i know you have either cable or dsl, which means you have the same ip number when you're online.
I really think this needs to head out into the court system and to the buying public's eyes. I think Ebay's ability to alter search and visibility needs to publicly be addressed with the buying public so they can realize just exactly how Ebay is altering their buying habits and limiting what they are seeing.
^ what she said.
joan
.
post_a_note (0 ) Jun-20-07 12:54 PDT 28 of
monkey: Those results were also posted here and discussed to great lengths.
Do you have a link to the thread? I did an advanced search on the word 'server' and couldn't seem to find it. I probably didn't search right, oh well.
Thanks!
Disclaimer: This is a Posting ID. If you are uncomfortable with posting IDs, feel free to ignore this post. Thank you in advance.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 12:57 PDT 29 of
The majority of posts in these threads seem to be little more than speculation at best... total fiction at worst.
I doubt you will call Billy C discussing the "finding" team and their new testing and tweaking of the "finding" system total fiction. You need to go back to the previous Town Hall and listen to the whole thing. (not the Live one the one before that). He specifically addresses this issue. This is not cloak and dagger stuff. It's quite out in the open and being discussed on the radio by Ebay's number 2 (uh-oh number 3?) man during a Town Hall. No big dark secrets hear. It was definitely something that perked up my ears believe you me. When they proceeded to roll out the much discussed searches it was obvious that Ebay has had a great deal of success with this concept. I think it's been called "surgical precision" by the military. Quite impressive but I don't think it will sit well with people when they find they aren't being provided with all the possibilities. My surprise was that Ebay was so open about the finding team and the manipulation.
.
monkey*see*monkey*do (Private ) Jun-20-07 13:23 PDT 30 of
Do you have a link to the thread? I did an advanced search on the word 'server' and couldn't seem to find it. I probably didn't search right, oh well.
I was going to search for them for someone else too but I didn't have time. Most no longer exist if you get my drift.
.
sandrarn83 (2688 ) Jun-20-07 13:26 PDT 31 of
Unless they do a Rosemary Woods and erase the Town Hall tapes those are still there to listen to. If not I have a MP3 download of it. Just for backup shall we say.
.
psychocat1959 (268 ) Jun-20-07 17:08 PDT 32 of
Right now I am on the West Coast server. Have been for a couple weeks. Not a bad place to be, except I wonder if anyone else can see me?
As for eBay manipulating search, they have been very up front that the have and are continuing to restrict in various ways what shows up where and when. Take the so called "serendipity factor". They won't say precisely what it is, just that it is used in smart search. What I find amazing is that a seller can search for their own auction items using exact wording from titles and not get those listings in the search results. That is not fiction or fantasy. That is proof positive that eBay manipulates what you find when you search.
Wish eBay would figure out that the more buyers see, the more buyers buy. If they can't find it, they can't buy it! It has never made sense to me from a business stand point that they raised final value fees in stores and then made it so hard for peeps to find them and buy from them.
Unless of course FVF's are not all that important in the money scheme of things. Just a thought.
.
chopsueysisters (2068 ) Jun-20-07 17:37 PDT 33 of
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=2003823101
Go to post 280, note the link. Exterminated.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000222963
I think ebay emps should search for their paycheck
See if they can find a best match that's appropriate
.
.
menagerie1 (3915 ) Jun-20-07 18:05 PDT 34 of
If you have a few hours/days on your hands (idle sellers?) read that post that Choppy referenced. Just read the Techie posts.
Print 'em out and have an IT person look at what is stated. The words Load Balancing will be a hot topic. The word 'myth' will not come up.
Highly plausible. Standard practices. But, never in real time settings. Inadequate. Cheap hosting sites do that. Money issues. Infrastructure.
Intentional? Probably not. Unless you count lack of forethought as intentional.
This site will have more glitches occur when there are approx. 12-M listings, than when there are 19-M listings. Especially right after a 19-M listing "bonanza".
Why? Because there's huge chunks of empty space on the servers. Load balancing has one heckova time then.
You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who can do nothing for them or to them. ~Malcolm Forbes
.
world_securities (4916 ) Jun-20-07 18:50 PDT 35 of
DEAD LINK (Zelda: Nooooo!):
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=1000376564
QUOTE
"Items are now stored on hosts by seller rather than by category. Thus, sellers are assigned ranges of item numbers, rather than categories having all similar item numbers.
To address the second part, the secondary sort in search results is indeed the item number. Thus, when a buyer sorts by "Ending Soonest", "Newly-Listed," etc., within those search results, the secondary sort
will be by item number.
Basically, what it boils down to is that items are now stored on hosts by seller rather than by category. Thus, sellers are assigned ranges of item numbers, rather than categories having all similar item numbers."
END QUOTE
.
OBSERVATION
Original poster name edited.
t (5695) Nov-01-06 07:54 PST 81
I've been told by a third party that the first two numbers refer to server numbers and are used for load balancing. In other words, listings are dealt out to various servers to help keep any particular server from getting bogged down.
It does potentially explain why higher numbers seem to perform more poorly than lower numbers, if the higher number servers are lower performance or there are further load-limiting restrictions. Such as geographical, algorithmic decisions on whether to display the item ... all speculative but the possibilities are endless. If you accept that the numbers are for load balancing then that part makes sense.
It does not explain why the numbers are allocated in seller-specific fashion. Why always 30 for example, when random selection would work better for load balancing and isn't any more difficult? Logically since the effect is to control distribution of your listings, the purpose would be to allow ebay to control traffic on a per-seller basis.
.
catbooks1940s (1169 ) Jun-20-07 19:48 PDT 36 of
To address the second part, the secondary sort in search results is indeed the item number. Thus, when a buyer sorts by "Ending Soonest", "Newly-Listed," etc., within those search results, the secondary sort will be by item number.
can someone explain to me, in plain english, what this means? what is a secondary sort?
joan
.
psychocat1959 (268 ) Jun-20-07 21:10 PDT 37 of
OK, this is a very basic simplified explanation.
The first sort is your overall or general sort. Say you have a bunch of marbles in different colors, sizes, values, and owners. On the first sort you sort by owners and values. You know have them divided according to two criteria. Now you do a second sort dividing the first sort up further. This time you sort by size and color. Maybe for a third sort you sort by age and condition. You continue to beak the original group into smaller and smaller subsets.
Now suppose that you take all of the items from the first sort that are owned by sellers with names starting with A through M and put those on one set of very good servers and rotate them. You take the remaining sellers marbles and put them on the older less efficient servers. Within each separate server group you then divide down further as mentioned above.
Searches can be done the same way. Group "A" and all of it's subsets may show up, while group "B" and it's subsets will not. Or they may be rotated so that group "A" shows up part of the time and group "B" shows up part of the time. Any set or subset can be used as criteria to be included or not included in the search.
Does that help make sense out of it for you?
.
catbooks1940s (1169 ) Jun-20-07 21:20 PDT 38 of
ah, thank you, psychocat
so it is as we suspected months ago, the searches are being manipulated by ebay using the banks of item numbers we're assigned to.
joan
.
psychocat1959 (268 ) Jun-21-07 00:08 PDT 39 of
Based on what eBay's own people have said, I'd say that is probably the case. What we don't know and they won't tell us are what all the actual criteria are used in sorting sellers and listings. They give us some, but keep a lot of it secret. I don't think it is so much paranoia on their part about stores or sellers so much as it is a means of controlling sellers and manipulating numbers to their own ends. Those quarterly quotas have to come out the way they want or stocks suffer. If stocks suffer, they look bad.
Unfortunately, this type of short sited manipulation is not healthy overall for the long term good of the company. Wish they would figure that out.
.
mainstreetmallonline (3518 ) Jun-21-07 07:02 PDT 40 of
/*
Technorati Profile
EventHorizon1984 Log
//