Number 5, one of a group of experimental military robots, undergoes a sudden transformation after being struck by lightning. He develops self-awareness, consciousness, and a fear of the reprogramming that awaits him back at the factory. With the help of a young woman, Number 5 tries to evade capture and convince his creator that he has truly become alive.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096101/
Short Circuit 2
6 July 1988
Synopsis
Robot Johnny Five comes to the city and gets manipulated by criminals who want him for their own purposes.
"Morbius was too close to the problem. The Krell had completed their project. Big machine ... no instrumentalities ... true creation." "But the Krell forgot one thing." "Monsters, John. Monsters from the Id." Doc Ostrow
"But like you the Krell forgot one deadly danger. Their own subconscious hate and lust for destruction." "And so those mindless beasts of the subconscious had access to a machine that could never be shut down. The secret devil of every soul on the planet all set free at once to loot and maim and take revenge, Morbius! And kill!" Captain J. J. Adams
Allison is now the head of Global Dynamics. Just when the computers are shut down for an eight hour upgrade, trouble starts. Fargo discovers a mysterious device in his coat pocket and turns it on. It turns out to be a force field generator that is impervious to everything (including, water, food and friends). Not only is the force field generator a danger to Fargo, but as the force field expands, it threatens the entire town.
By accident, however, Richard's laser device draws in an alien being (John Hoyt) who, among other attributes, possesses an invisible force-shield. Judith sees this shield as something that would earn her husband the respect of his father and the world, and the chairmanship of his father's corporation, if he could claim it as his discovery. With help from her servant Mrs. Dame (Chita Rivera), she shoots the alien and takes the control device, a button attached by a vein to the being's body, and activates the shield for her father-in-law; the shield is, indeed, impenetrable, but Judith finds she is unable to deactivate it. With her air running out, it becomes apparent that nothing, including her husband's laser, can get her free.
After suffering a blow to the head, Carter awakens in what appears to be a parallel universe, one in which the inhabitants of Eureka are disappearing one by one.
Dax is under arrest — charged with treason and the murder of Tandro's father, General Ardelon Tandro, 30 years ago. Sisko realizes that he is accusing Curzon Dax, not Jadzia, of committing the crimes on Klaestron IV. For some reason, however, Dax refuses to tell Sisko what happened back then.
In Dax's defense, Sisko and Kira tell Tandro that, since the space station is technically Bajoran, an extradition hearing must be held before they can release Dax to him. Quark reluctantly agrees to allow the hearing to be held in his bar. At the hearing, Sisko tries to convince Judge Els Renora that Jadzia Dax is an entirely different entity than Curzon. Due to the unusual circumstances, Renora agrees to extend the proceedings.
Chris is taken into custody for an extradition trial to bring him back to West Virginia, where he currently has a parole violation. Chris knows he is guilty and really isn't interested in his defense. Mike comes up with an angle that he can prove to the judge that the Chris Stevens that skipped bail is different from the Chris Stevens standing before her.
I am not really rating this episode, but I simply want to point out the very interesting coincidence that the main underlying plot for it, i.e., an extradition hearing (here for "Chris in the morning"), is the same as that of Episode 7 of the first season of Star Trek Deep Space Nine (entitled "Dax") that aired exactly two months later (02/14/93) and centered around an extradition hearing for Lieutenant Dax. In both cases the somewhat improvised defense was successfully made on the grounds that the person being sought for extradition was no longer the same as the one who had committed the alleged crime (parole violation for Chris, murder for Lt. Dax) as a result of an extensive change of their personality (becoming a radio show host for Chris, changing host body for Lt. Dax). The "icing on the cake" is that for both episodes the hearing judge is played by the SAME actress, Anne Haney.
Guest Star: Melinda Clarke as Lady Heather Kessler
The Good, the Bad and the Dominatrix Airdate 10 May 2007 Synopsis
After an unsuccessful attempt on Lady Heather's life, Sara discovers Gil's prior relationship with her.
Pirates of the Third Reich Airdate 9 February 2006 Synopsis
A half-naked woman is found half buried in the desert with a branding on her arm. She has no hair and is missing her right hand. The woman turns out to be Lady Heather's estranged daughter.
Lady Heather's Box Airdate 13 February 2003 Synopsis
Two male prostitutes are found dead, one in a night club and the other in his own home. They both worked for Lady Heather so Gil Grissom and Jim Brass pay another visit to her house.
Slaves of Las Vegas Airdate 15 November 2001 Synopsis
Grissom and Catherine investigate the apparent violent death of a woman found in a sandbox. Their investigation leads them to the underground world of s and m clubs.
For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
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From eBay Trust & Safety (Safe Harbor) It never happened http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=1010343023&forumID=107&x#1010343023
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jackie9978 (0 ) Sep-26-07 05:44 PDT 23 of 36 Here goes.
8:12:24 AM System Steven S. S. has joined this session! 8:12:24 AM System Connected with Steven S. S. 8:12:29 AM Steven S. S. Hello, thank you for waiting and welcome to eBay Live Help! My name is Steven. If you’re a registered member, may I please start by having you confirm your User ID and first name? 8:12:43 AM jackie9978 Hi, it's Jackie, Jackie9978. 8:13:19 AM Steven S. S. Hi! Jackie. How are you today? 8:13:25 AM jackie9978 I've been better. 8:13:32 AM jackie9978 Are you ready for my question? 8:14:11 AM jackie9978 What protections is EBAY taking now that so many names and credit card numbers were allowed to be posted on one of your discussion boards? I know you want it to all disappear, but is EBAY safe or not? 8:14:19 AM Steven S. S. O Sure! 8:15:39 AM Steven S. S. May I have the link of the page you are referring to? 8:15:45 AM jackie9978 And, Steven S.S., why aren't you demanding that your "boss" bot issue a press release about this event that is causing many people to question the safety of ebay. 8:15:53 AM jackie9978 a link? You don't even know what happened on ebay? 8:16:56 AM Steven S. S. I just need to make sure that the page you are viewing is of eBay. 8:18:08 AM jackie9978 Steven S. S., are you denying that EBAY allowed this awful thing to happen? 8:18:22 AM jackie9978 is EBAY safe or is EBAY unsafe? 8:19:49 AM Steven S. S. Please be assured that eBay is a safe online trading site ad doesn't share any personal information. 8:20:13 AM jackie9978 Then, can you explain what happened yesterday on your Trust & Safety Discussion Board, please? 8:22:09 AM Steven S. S. Sure. 8:23:59 AM Steven S. S. Due to an exploit of a feature on the PayPal site, some eBay users’ contact information may have been exposed. As soon as we learned of this exploit, we worked very quickly to shut it down. 8:24:26 AM Steven S. S. This occurred when eBay users clicked on the PayPal account signup URL from the eBay Web site. Third parties may have been able to enter an eBay ID and get the user’s contact information. [IF PRESSED, this information includes name, e-mail address, shipping information and phone numbers] 8:25:04 AM Steven S. S. Information accessed did not include financial information like credit card numbers or bank account numbers. This information is kept under the highest levels of encryption on eBay’s and PayPal’s secure servers. 8:25:28 AM jackie9978 Then, why did that information appear on your Trust & Safety discussion board? 8:27:49 AM Steven S. S. eBay and PayPal are very safe ways to buy and sell online. We have more than 2,000 professionals working to ensure the trust and safety of our systems every day. Because PayPal doesn’t share users’ financial information, privacy is built into the service. 8:28:06 AM jackie9978 Well, that isn't my question. You claim something never happened and it certainly did happen. 8:28:25 AM jackie9978 And, shame on you for trying to hide it. Just admit there was a mistake and FIX it so it does not happen again. 8:28:48 AM jackie9978 This wasn't a PAYPAL issue, this information was posted on YOUR boards. 8:30:02 AM Steven S. S. As I said that it is pulled from there and it is possible that these unauthorized 3rd parties have posted this on the discussion board. 8:30:40 AM jackie9978 But, you said it never showed up on your website, which is false. Which is it? Was it a PAYPAL glitch or did EBAY permit this personal information to appear on your discussion boards? 8:33:14 AM Steven S. S. It was due to a glitch as I mentioned. 8:33:29 AM jackie9978 lol, a "glitch". 8:34:01 AM jackie9978 So, Steven S. S., at first you denied it happened, then you called it a glitch. 8:34:04 AM Steven S. S. This issue occurred when eBay users clicked on the PayPal account signup URL from the eBay Web site it was posted on the discussion board. The feature is designed to facilitate PayPal registration from eBay. 8:34:35 AM jackie9978 So, you're claiming that everyone who had their personal information posted did so by "clicking a URL" from a discussion board? 8:35:25 AM Steven S. S. Not from the discussion board but when eBay users clicked on the PayPal account signup URL from the eBay Web site it was posted on the discussion board. 8:35:51 AM jackie9978 I see, so you're blaming PAYPAL for personal information of your users being posted on your discussion board? 8:36:00 AM Steven S. S. Which I already cleared to you earlier and I didn't said it has not happened. 8:36:14 AM jackie9978 Steven S.S. doesn't that appear that you're simply passing the buck? Refusing to accept responsibility? 8:36:14 AM Steven S. S. I just asked you the link of the page on which you saw it. 8:36:30 AM jackie9978 I saw it on Ebay's Trust & Safety discussion board approximately 24 hours ago. 8:36:41 AM jackie9978 That's your board, Steven S.S. not Paypal. 8:37:08 AM Steven S. S. We are not playing a blame game but due to a glitch on the link it got posted on the discussion board. 8:37:12 AM jackie9978 You DID remove it, but the fact remains, EBAY permitted this information to be posted. And many people, myself included, are questioning the safety of EBAY. 8:37:30 AM jackie9978 So, Paypal redirected this information to your discussion board........ 8:37:43 AM jackie9978 Steven S.S. that sounds so bizarre, is that the official story? 8:38:55 AM Steven S. S. It was a glitch in the link on the eBay website link for PayPal because of which it got posted and which I already explained you many times. 8:39:15 AM jackie9978 Okay, it was a glitch on the EBAY link not Paypal now? Gotcha. 8:39:48 AM Steven S. S. It's not that eBay knowingly allowed this to happen. 8:39:50 AM jackie9978 Steven S.S., don't you think EBAY should alert everyone that this "glitch" happened? And that you're taking precautions that it doesn't happen again? 8:42:35 AM Steven S. S. I agree with you. However, it has been removed from the discussion board and our team is working on it. 8:42:58 AM Steven S. S. Any update on this will be put on the announcement board to aware our members. 8:43:09 AM jackie9978 Steven S.S. acting as if it never happened isn't putting any faith into Ebay, but thank you for your time. Have a nice day. 8:43:40 AM Steven S. S. You're welcome! 8:43:45 AM Steven S. S. Is there anything else I can help you with today? 8:43:50 AM jackie9978 That will be all.
***Update on eBay.com’s On-Site Advertising Strategy*** September 24, 2007 | 11:01AM PST/PT
Steve Hartman
Hi everyone...I'm Steve Hartman, the Director of On-Site Advertising for eBay. My team is responsible for the ads that show up on eBay.com and I'm here to give you an update on our progress and future plans.
From the beginning, we've approached on-site advertising with the belief that displaying some types of ads to the right people at the right time would benefit buyers by providing them with greater opportunities to find what they were looking for. By satisfying needs this way, we add value to the overall marketplace and further establish eBay as the first and best place to shop.
Our findings so far There are different reasons people use eBay. Some come to browse, buy, sell, and connect. Others simply come to research or have fun. The testing we've done has helped us better predict when providing advertising actually helps as part of these experiences.
Today our strategy is to identify when people are most likely to buy or bid, so that we don't display ads that are likely to put potential transactions on eBay at risk. In addition, we're working with our advertising partners to show ads that are more relevant, so that their presence truly enhances the buying experience. Analysis to date has shown that this approach to advertising does not get in the way of people who intend to buy or sell items on the site.
Make no mistake – above everything else, we want buyers to transact on eBay. But we also want to offer alternatives when we believe it will improve the buying experience. Our advertising efforts have shown no significant impact to our core transaction business, and subsequently to our sellers' revenue, which further convinces us that we are on the right path.
Let me also say that while we are encouraged about our findings to-date, we have more to learn. I'm sure that everyone can come up with an example of an ad on eBay.com that was not "beneficial" to their user experience, and, yes, I've seen a few of them myself. To that point we're continuing to try new and improved ways to show the right ads in the U.S. And globally, our other sites are developing their own approaches to advertising that meet the unique needs for their markets.
Sincerely,
Steve Hartman eBay On-Site Advertising Team
// // //
http://center.spoke.com/info/pRbIaA/SteveHartman
Steve Hartman
eBay Manager Analytical Applications
eBay Singapore, 2001-2007
Accenture HR Services Inc
// // //
From eBay Stores Forum October Brown Bag Lunch on 10/30 @ 12 noon http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=2008120503&forumID=21&x#2008120503
eBay has approached on-site advertising with the belief that displaying some types of ads to the right people at the right time would benefit buyers by providing them with greater opportunities to find what they were looking for. By satisfying their needs, we add value to the overall marketplace and further establish eBay as the first and best place to shop.
While we are encouraged about our findings to-date, we have more to learn. I'm sure that everyone can come up with an example of an ad on eBay.com that was not "beneficial" to their user experience. We’re continuing to try new and improved ways to show the right ads.
Best Regards, Stinson
// // //
For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
FYI apologist post_a_note aka 20th_century_art posts spin and damage control supporting eBay ...
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From eBay Stores Forum Today's ebay Worst Person in the World! Steve Hartman http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000565064&start=0
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-24-07 13:17 PDT Steve Hartman, the Director of On-Site Advertising for eBay earns the honor of Today's ebay Worst Person in the World!
For this great spin on why it is ok for ebay to drive traffic to competing items on Amazon. His take it really does not drive customers to other sites?
pri** (388 ) Sep-24-07 13:28 PDT 1 It's just so disheartening to read stuff like that. It would be better if eBay would keep its pie hole shut than put out piles of horse manure like that.
Kat (primsaw)
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foc** (Private ) Sep-24-07 13:45 PDT 2 You don't find Burger King ads inside McDonald's stores! Everything he says is nonsense! Indeed, Today's ebay Worst Person in the World, he has a nice smile, though.
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rust** (284 ) Sep-24-07 13:49 PDT 3 I read that announcement about 2 hours ago, thought surely I had mis-read it, so I read it again. I then went out to the shop and tinkered on tractors for awhile to allow myself to cool down a bit and collect my thoughts on this issue. I still don't have it figured out. It does make wonder though just who is writing Steve Hartmans pay check. It surely cannot be ebay?? Maybe someone is passing money under the table?
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-24-07 13:55 PDT 4 They are Dumb and Desperate!
Obviously they fear missing their earnings in one quarter more than destroying the business in the long term.
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dol** (1897 ) Sep-24-07 14:01 PDT 5 Oh...wow. If I were a cartoon you could see the steam coming out of my ears right now after reading that.
Well, if THIS doduble-speak he said is true:
"But we also want to offer alternatives when we believe it will improve the buying experience. Our advertising efforts have shown no significant impact to our core transaction business, and subsequently to our sellers' revenue, which further convinces us that we are on the right path. "
Then I IMMEDIATELY expect eBay to lift the ban on linking to my off-eBay store in MY LISTINGS which I PAY (dearly) FOR. It would definitely improve the buying experience for my, and eBay's customers. If eBay DOESN'T do this, it just makes them a hypocite times TWENTY. Just another reason to not trust eBay at all.
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moo** (1423 ) Sep-24-07 14:29 PDT 6 Conversely, Amazon was showing me ads for a national Pizza chain last Friday afternoon. This seems like a no-brainer and smart for Amazon. I didn't buy pizza from that chain, but sure did buy a pizza Friday evening.
Director? please! Directors make movies. This guy is a MANAGER! eBay has alot of upper management trying to show profit for the group they lead. I've always hated this kind of upper management. It just comes down to a number to show the CEO and wear with your snotty clothes. All moral decisions get flushed down the toilet.
Will Barker
I'm worried for the soul of eBay. I'm sure the average eBay employee is worried too. I'd like to find out what this manager did before eBay? Not that I'm suggesting Amazon, but more like Country Time Lemonaid or Jiffy Lube are in his resume.
Full Disclosure: I've been a Fishermen, a computer graphic artist, I've slept in my car more than once, I've been to strip clubs, told lies, voted for Perot, been robbed at gunpoint, sold liquor and lottery tickets, ....but I never did something as shameful as this guy has!
He is the Worst Person in the World, Sept. 24th 2007!
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-24-07 14:34 PDT 7 Cobb Just said on the Townhall that the Amazon Ads were a mistake and should not be showing. He is so Clueless!
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ete** (1450 ) Sep-24-07 14:45 PDT 8 Quote: "Our advertising efforts have shown no significant impact to our core transaction business, and subsequently to our sellers' revenue, which further convinces us that we are on the right path."
Cough, choke, cough. Does anyone know the Heimlich Maneuver??
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moo** (1423 ) Sep-24-07 14:50 PDT 9 "My wife doesn't know that I'm cheating on her, and this lack of knowledge is having no impact on our marriage, which further convinces me that I'm on the right path!"
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psy** (281 ) Sep-24-07 14:58 PDT 10 So Amazon can have adds on eBay, but the actual eBay store owners can not promote their own off eBay sites?
More eBay hypocrisy!
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roc** (2345 ) Sep-24-07 15:08 PDT 11 I wondered if the guy bothered to ask any sellers if our sales were hurting. We know the answer to that question.
Yeah, and like how many Target stores meet customers at the door, ask them what they are looking for, and then send them to Kmart or Richman Gordman?
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 15:11 PDT 12 The only sellers they likely looked at were there mega sellers, the one's they are helping.
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post_a_note (0 ) Sep-24-07 15:15 PDT 13 So Amazon can have adds on eBay, but the actual eBay store owners can not promote their own off eBay sites?
Well, come to think of it... I could name quite a few off eBay sites that are promoted on this very board, either through quasi-concealed references, or direct links in ME pages, almost daily. Personally, I'd like to see ALL the off-eBay traffic drivers minimized. I wonder how many forummers agree with that approach?? Or is driving eBay traffic to another site okay when it puts money in one's own pocket?
This is a posting ID. The views and opinions expressed here may resemble those of eBay employees or management.
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roc** (2345 ) Sep-24-07 15:17 PDT 14 From the beginning, we've approached on-site advertising with the belief that displaying some types of ads to the right people at the right time would benefit buyers by providing them with greater opportunities to find what they were looking for. By satisfying needs this way, we add value to the overall marketplace and further establish eBay as the first and best place to shop.
So now Ebay wants to be the friendly good-guy who refers any and all buyers to other places to shop. Good PR, eh? A referral service. And buyers will love Ebay for it and keep coming back? That's their mission? Just like Santa in A Miracle on 34th Street. Buyers will come back for more referrals! Why should they have to surf the internet themselves when Ebay will provide them with all the places to buy from with one click? What a crock?
And sales have gone down. And listings have gone down. Geesh, Meg herself says so in her quarterly reports. What pile of sand has this guy been burying his head in?
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 15:19 PDT 15 PAN
The sellers PAY to have THEIR items seen NOT to have offsite sellers items seen.
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 15:20 PDT 16 -
I agree that if it is ok to have have offsite ads then it should be ok for a seller to put their website in their item description.
But the ads should stop and allow the sellers to advertise their websites.
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roc** (2345 ) Sep-24-07 15:21 PDT 17 Maybe Ebay is trying to compete with Google's search info., and keep people from going to Google? Ebay wants people to come here to find out where to buy on the net. Stevie probably thinks Ebay will get more buyers on the site that way. You know, trickle down shopping. Well, trickle down economics didn't work either.
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 15:21 PDT 18 -
Course if they did that they would probably charge a fee of a dollar for each listing.
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moo** (1423 ) Sep-24-07 15:26 PDT 19 Come on PAN! We're not talking about eBay advertisng for Pepsi, Pizza, and Crusie Ships, ...which makes sense. We're taking about the most idiotic form of advertising from eBay. Advertising for your direct competetion.
Like I've said before, I could careless who gets the 15% commission now.
Don't care if it helps them reach this quarters numbers goals. It's shameful and frankly not necessary.
...and it makes for good jokes and satire!
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fri* (1154 ) Sep-24-07 15:28 PDT 20
WoW! How did he keep such a straight face while delivering THAT!
Oh... it's a picture. Uhhh - nevermind.
~fr*k
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psy** (281 ) Sep-24-07 15:30 PDT 21 Well said just thinking.
I pay for my listings. Experion does not pay me for their adds to appear on my listings. I do not pay for eBay to put Experion or other adds on my listing. Yet eBay has done just that.
As for promoting Amazon or other big companies on eBay, I find it a strange strategy. Drive sellers off eBay to the competition. Not just eBay sellers competition, but eBay's own direct competition. What the heck are they thinking?
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moo** (1423 ) Sep-24-07 15:31 PDT 22 Come to think of it...maybe Jeff Bezos made a bet with eBay like this.
Heads I Win. Tails you Lose!
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fairly_dinkum (6 ) Sep-24-07 15:47 PDT 23 "Analysis to date has shown that this approach to advertising does not get in the way of people who intend to buy or sell items on the site."
You know the intentions of people? We finally got the Finding Team to admit that they can't read minds and then you go and write something like that!
They'll be wanting to borry your crystal ball, just you wait and see.
Oh...that Town Hall call-in complaint on the Experian Ads...
TACKY
Good one. The panel commented with mutterings and whispers of "next question".
fair treatment for Stores - just do it ~me
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fairly_dinkum (6 ) Sep-24-07 15:50 PDT 24 borry to BORROW (the slang-English of the two-fingered typer)
fair treatment for Stores - just do it ~me
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 15:51 PDT 25 Read that if one turns off the counters they can get rid of the Experian Ads.
BUT the time sellers figure out a work around, eBay is figuring out how to work around and counter them.
If too many items sell in the stores, eBay will figure out how to hide them even more.
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chi** (1796 ) Sep-24-07 16:08 PDT 26 It is all part of Dumbing Down of America. I have been here awhile and I believe that Ebay has some very smart sellers. We are not part of the dumbing down, but maybe he's alway arrived if he believe's his own BS. Most sellers don't. JC Penneys ads all over is a slap in the face to sellers of clothes and shoes. They will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-24-07 16:15 PDT 27 How about Dell Computer and Dell Laptop ads... Bright Colorful Enticing Ads slapped all over ebay. Even worse right on the front page luring customers away even before they even enter the search box. Million dollar ads created by Million dollar ad agencies. You want to compete with that and pay the fees and deal with the fraud here?
Business school text books will have case studies on this Blunder. Any third grader with a Lemonade stand would know hanging a sign up saying "Go Buy Joey's Lemonade across the street it Taste Better" is not good for business.
Where does ebay find these IDIOTS!
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ora** (154 ) Sep-24-07 16:59 PDT 28 This explains why my Amazon sales have doubled in the past two months. Woot!
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car** (151 ) Sep-24-07 17:15 PDT 29 And this approach is supposed to win back those consumers from the past, which eBay lost. I think not.
Today our strategy is to identify when people are most likely to buy or bid, so that we don't display ads that are likely to put potential transactions on eBay at risk.
I would like to know how many of these ads have had an adverse effect on sellers and will those sellers be compensated for such loss? I think not.
So this strategy could potentially be costing sellers thousands of lost revenue, and those sellers don't even know it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Just one more example why any university offering an MBA program should be burned to the ground.
--Mac
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eto** (2636 ) Sep-24-07 17:39 PDT 31 I had a tougher time translating this one. My Ebayese has never been tested to this extent. Steve piled IT so high, he has produced a years worth of methane for the entire state of Utah. ______________
Hi everyone...I'm Steve Cartman, the Director of On-Site Advertising and Propaganda for eBay. My team is responsible for the ads that show up in front of your store listings in core search on eBay.com and I'm here to give you an update on our future plans to have store items visibility totally disappear from our site.
From the beginning, we've approached on-site advertising with the belief that displaying some types of ads to the right people at the right time would benefit Ebay by providing Ebay with greater revenue opportunities of having buyers find what they were looking for off of Ebay. We don't care if buyers purchase on site or not, Ebay gets paid either way! Seriously, isn't that what IT is all about? Shopping Victoriously OFF of Ebay?? By satisfying our needs this way, we add revenue to Ebay and further establish eBay as the first and best place to shop off of Ebay before the potential buyer can find your store!
Our findings so far There are different reasons people use eBay. Personally, we don't care two round mounds about the segment of individuals attempting to make a living here. We don't have to. We have you people coming out our ears. The others come to browse, buy, and connect. Others simply come to research or have fun. The testing we've done has helped us better predict when we can take sales away from store owners by providing competitor's advertising ahead of the majority of store items that appear in core search, the ONLY visibility ya'll have!! Ain't that a HOOT! We felt that our lubricated method of eliminating SIS to reduce the number of stores was not as successful as we planned. No lubrication this time. The gloves are off!
I had to leave the next paragraph alone. Reason immediately following this unbelieveable diatribe. ____________________________________________________ Today our strategy is to identify when people are most likely to buy or bid, so that we don't display ads that are likely to put potential transactions on eBay at risk. In addition, we're working with our advertising partners to show ads that are more relevant, so that their presence truly enhances the buying experience. Analysis to date has shown that this approach to advertising does not get in the way of people who intend to buy or sell items on the site. ___________________________________________________
TRANSLATOR'S NOTE - The above paragraph cannot be translated. IT is pure poopy. There is no Ebayese translation for LIES, because Ebay never lies. Since this entire paragraph is a LIE, IT is untranslatable. Hey Cartman, email me, I will show you irrefutable evidence to the contrary. ____________________________________________________
okay...translation cont.
Make no mistake – above everything else, we want buyers to transact on eBay core, or paid ads before purchasing from stores! We believe it will improve the buying experience while driving more invisible store items to core. Our advertising efforts have shown no significant impact to our core transaction business, but IT has kicked donkey butt on store sales! We love IT! We are convinced that we are on the right path, number one priority Core, number two Paid ads, number three Express and last, those stores. Check for future updates, Ebay search and ad team are combining forces to have Ebay stores receive less traffic than wagglepop! And ya'll didn't think that was possible? Wait!
Let me also say that while we are encouraged about our 96% YOY increase in paid ads, we have more money to make. Like how to have paid pop ups appear with less expensive like items in core when a potential buyer enters your store, or an automatic last page never ending re-direct. I'm sure that everyone can come up with an example of an ad on eBay.com that was listed on the first page of core search ahead of your store items, and, yes, I've seen a few thousand of them myself. But you forget, we don't care. To that point we're continuing to try new and improved ways to eliminate stores without the bad PR of raising fees. We're subtle, conniving, and love to eliminate store sales!
Sincerely, Steve Cartman eBay On-Site Advertising Team
Now, once again, my waiver. This is satire, Otay? This is my translation only. As you can tell, my Ebayese is slipping, I could not translate an entire paragraph because of the stench.
Your opinion may differ. My opinion is not the opinion of Ebay or any affiliates, I'm almost sure. IT is solely my own interpretation.
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fri** (1154 ) Sep-24-07 17:47 PDT 32
~fr_k
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tct** (2084 ) Sep-24-07 17:56 PDT 33 Ebay is going to the dogs. This seals it. Unbelievable. We are supposed to advertise for Ebay elsewhere for less of a final value fee, then they take money from another company to put their ads on Ebay. What a crock. I guess good things can't last forever, but it's too bad because originally Ebay was a brilliant idea. Now its just another site full of advertising. What a disappointment.
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 17:58 PDT 34 We are supposed to advertise for Ebay elsewhere for less of a final value fee
And that is what all that nonsense is about Squidoo. I have nothing against Squidoo BUT I would not dream of using that to bring people into this site, I use it to bring people to my website or other totally free alternative sites.
eTown I applaud you as well. That was great! LOL
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 18:00 PDT 35 -
And eBay is lovin it that sellers are now doing more and more of their own advertising. They collect the fees and the store sellers get their own traffic. What are those store listing fees for ?????
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-24-07 18:05 PDT 36 -
And the message sellers who pay or get for free all that traffic coming into eBay is mainly training this company that they do not have to get meaningful traffic anymore, let the sellers do it, we will just sit here and count our money.
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cho** (2185 ) Sep-24-07 18:28 PDT 37 OK! I want him gone. Where's Little Deuce? I need to talk with, u know.. Tony
Der-der der-der-der DER-DER Green acres is the place to be!
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ger** (729 ) Sep-24-07 18:36 PDT 38 Ebay is probably raking in the dough for each click they get for these off site places. Gerrhagirls Stained Glass Supplies and More
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rlr** (2000 ) Sep-24-07 19:13 PDT 39 The translation for that load of Yuppy MBA speak is rather simple.
"We're making a butt-load of money off of these ads, so it really doesn't matter whether it affects your sales"
mylildeucecoop (6 ) Sep-24-07 20:18 PDT 40 Etown- Fab Job!
Gotta Go..I hear dogs barking off in the distance.......like a sick howl...high whine......like death of a good life. Oh wait, that's me whimpering at my desk.
Chops! I am here- email me! Lildeuce
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eto** (2637 ) Sep-24-07 22:24 PDT 41 Today our strategy is to identify when people are most likely to buy or bid, so that we don't display ads that are likely to put potential transactions on eBay at risk. ___________________
Steve, I don't really want an email from you. You're way too busy shoveling. I'll just show you what I'm talking about.
On my BUYER'S ID.....I buy A-LOT of Verlander autographs, and sell them also...
Here's what is below the partial store listings (30 of 48 appear) for Verlander autograph search.
Sponsored Links from Shopping.com Detroit Tigers Justin Verlander Autographed Baseball...Justin threw only the 6th no hitter in Tigers History in 2007 and is one of the best young pitchers in the major leagues!!Each item comes with a MLB A...
Dick's Sporting Goods Detroit Tigers Justin Verlander Autographed Baseball...Justin threw only the 6th no hitter in Tigers History in 2007 and is one of the best young pitchers in the major leagues!!Each item comes with a MLB A... Dick's Sporting Goods
2005 Skybox Autographics Baseball Unopened Box12 packs per box with 5 cards per pack. 3 Autographed cards per box on average with the set including David Wright and Justin Verlander. There are al...
Dick's Sporting Goods 2005 Fleer Authentix Baseball Unopened Box24 packs per box with 5 cards each. This product has lots of memorabilia and autographs at a rate of 4 per box on average. Look for autographs of Cal...
Dick's Sporting Goods Topps 2006 Rookies Set 1952 Edition (20pk)2006 Topps MLB Rookies 1952 Edition More than 300 Rookies including Justin Verlander, Stephen Drew and Jered Weaver! 20 Packs, 8 Cards Per Pack 3 A... Dick's Sporting Goods __________________________
EVERY AD - Justin Verlander - direct competition placed before my items.
Ten of my twelve Verlander autographs appear on the SECOND page - after the competitor's ads on the FIRST page.
Ya gotta tell me, how does this NOT potentially put my Ebay item sales at risk?
BTW....peachy letter ya sent out. How many people do ya think swallowed that, 1 or 2?
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cho** (2185 ) Sep-24-07 22:27 PDT 42 OK Deuce! I'm bring my mercy stick
Der-der der-der-der DER-DER Green acres is the place to be!
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moo** (1424 ) Sep-24-07 22:50 PDT 43 This day has helped me see the light.... and it burns! I'll try to ignore all the stupid lies and swank moves for the sake of Wall Street from here on out. I'm here for the next 4-5 months to cash in, as I'm sure the rest of you are too.
This monster is just gonna have to be your ugly girlfriend for awhile. Nice to bang every night, but just really awful to see with the lights on.
bhe** (302 ) Sep-24-07 23:04 PDT 45 EBay wants to be a web search engine for shoppers. Maybe they should call it eBayoogle?
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y07/m09/i25/s02 Todd Lutwak of eBay Seller Development said the seller team is working very closely with the advertising team on the testing. Lutwak said just as it's better for buyers to have three people selling an item on eBay versus just one seller, the Yahoo advertising provides more choices to buyers.
England said eBay wants to convert visitors to buyers, but they also want visitors to consider eBay "the first place to start their shopping experience."
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cho** (2185 ) Sep-24-07 23:09 PDT 46 LMAO Mookie!
Hey y’all, prepare yourself
For the Rubberband... man
You never heard a sound
Like the rubberband.... man
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pri** (388 ) Sep-24-07 23:13 PDT 47 "England said eBay wants to convert visitors to buyers, but they also want visitors to consider eBay "the first place to start their shopping experience."
etown, may I attempt to translate this bit of ebayese into plain English this time?
"England said eBay wants to convert visitor to buyers at other websites, but they also want visitors to consider eBay as not really good enough to do their shopping there, just a place to find out where else to go for a better shopping experience."
Kat
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ben** (136 ) Sep-24-07 23:31 PDT 48 Kat, I am humbled, Ebayese could be your first language!
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eto** (2637 ) Sep-24-07 23:34 PDT 49 One of my Buy ID's again, see how pissed I am?
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seo** (543 ) Sep-24-07 23:54 PDT 50 Ok, I have him exterminated too since I have already paid for a hired hit for my MIL and it is one for one (hunter said it is low season anyway).
"They try to make me go to rehab, I said no no no "
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formerjunkseller (0 ) Sep-25-07 03:24 PDT 51 Ever seen the wizard of OZ?
"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTIAN..."
"Pay no attention to those on-site advertisements. They are not driving people off site to make their purchases. There have been no negative impact to ebay from these adds. We can assure you that not one single person has made a purchase on the sites our links have diverted your buyers to. And there are no links to Amazon.com on ebay.com and even if there was they were there by mistake and had no negative impact on ebay itself."
I don't know what scares me the most...
The thought that they actually believe people are so dumb and thoughtless that we'd believe this or...
The thought that THEY acutually believe this themselves.
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formerjunkseller (0 ) Sep-25-07 03:29 PDT 52 Buy Books at Abebooks and Save Money Find the book you're looking for at Abebooks.com. Compare bookstore selections. Over 100 million used, rare and out-of-print books offered by 13,000 bookstores. www.abebooks.com
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS LINK AS FOUND ON EBAY UNDER HUMOR BOOKS. WE CAN ASSURE YOU THAT NO EBAY USER WOULD CLICK ON THAT AND BUY A BOOK THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BOUGHT ON EBAY.COM. This add is here for one reason only and that is to enhance the ebay buying experince...
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formerjunkseller (0 ) Sep-25-07 03:32 PDT 53 "Textbooks: Compare Prices Save up to 90% on millions of new and used textbooks. Free shipping, no tax available. www.campusbooks.com"
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS LINK TO CAMPUSBOOKS.COM. We can assure you that this link has no negative impact on ebay.com and does not actually promote off ebay buying.
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formerjunkseller (0 ) Sep-25-07 03:37 PDT 54 Books Books Find Books Books and Compare prices at Smarter.com. www.smarter.com
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS LINK ON OUR SITE. We can assure you that even though when you click on it it only promotes buying books from Barnesnoble.com, AMAZON.co, Half.com, ichapters.com and visit borders.com and does not promote books on EBAY.com, THERE IS NO NEGATIVE IMPACT FROM THIS LINK ON OUR SITE.
OK fellow boardies... you know what to do... cut and past those "NO NEGATIVE IMPACT" adds!
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old** (3057 ) Sep-25-07 03:47 PDT 55 Been saying since this was announced that this advertising move was the greatest danger to sellers eBAY had conjured to date ---- Looks claivoyant at this point -- and
I am truly surprised that it is only in the last couple of months that it has become a big brouhaha on the board.
The twist side is that it is also the BEST available opportunity to USE eBAY to grow another site --- and was the SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in decidig to push the date of our WEBB SITE forward by nearly a year
We are getting NICE traffic and sales to both our WEBB SITES directly from eBAY -- and at an advertising cost that is favorable compared to overall eBAY costs.
Our specialty WEBB SITE this month will be at 85% of our OVERALL eBAY sales -- and our other site will approach 65% of eBAY overall Sales --- BOTH easily 6 months ahead of schedule -- AND
I frankly THANK eBAY's lack of COM focus for our success.
Our goal is to be using eBAY as strictly a dumping ground for excess inventory by end QTR 2 2008 in one store and to do just mid grade collectable auctions on this ID in about the same time frame.
I still believe that eBAY's corporate focus will bring IT success --- I just do not believe that any but collectable auctioneers and mega general line stores will be sharing much in that success.
We will participate as auctioneers ---
Carl
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tri** (1684 ) Sep-25-07 05:24 PDT 56 If the ads are not encouraging users to click the links and leave eBay, then eBay wouldn't be making any money on "click through" would they? And they wouldn't bother to do it. So if eBay is planning to continue the practice, it is because they are making big $$$$ from it, which also means lots of users are leaving eBay because of the links.
I don't have a big problem with links to items not available on eBay. Although I still think anything that distracts or draws a user away from your site is a bad idea. At least no one here is selling mortgages, pizza delivery, etc.
Does Amazon have links to B & K or ABEBooks? Don't think so. I don't see K-mart ads when I go to the Walmart site. And I've yet to see Chevy ads on the Ford site.
Well, heck, evidently "Steve" is smarter than the marketing folks for all the other large corporations and online vendors. Most other companies would probably fire the marketing guy or laugh at the idea of encouraging prospective buyers to leave their site & visit a competitor, thinking it was an April Fool's joke.
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eto** (2637 ) Sep-25-07 05:35 PDT 57 Steve, here's another classic! Search off my Buyer's ID again - Tarvaris autograph.
17 appear in core. Yahoo! I get visibility with my 13 Tarvaris autograph's! 30/65 store items appear on the first page.
But..... in FRONT of 12 of my graphs which aren't on the first page...
How dumb do they think we are - of course it is leading people off the site or Ebay wouldn't make any $$ from them and they wouldn't be there.
Our advertising efforts have shown no significant impact to our core transaction business
Interesting phrasing above: Since someone hitting a link, would be going to purchase an item, not bid on an auction in hopes of purchasing, so I imagine it doesn't impact core when looked at as a whole to the same degree as stores. Although I'm sure if it was broken down there would be a significant impact to core BIN and core Fixed price.
But then again, I never knew Ebay had gotten its software set so now it can read the intentions of buyers on the site. So do they only whip out the ads, when the buyer is not intending to bid? They can tell by the way the buyer scrolls down? Or by the way the enter button is hit (oooh, too soft, they won't bid, pull the ads out). What malarkey!
So, tell me Ebay - what am I thinking now?
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focus5358 (Private ) Sep-25-07 06:01 PDT 59 I did a search on "Sopranos", it showed me item #320159920764 Sopranos 1-6 All Six Seasons Ultimate Collection DVD Price $106.72, Bids 24, Shipping $12.00
and some Sponsored Links: Sopranos Seasons 1-6 $95 Lowest Price Online. 2 Days Only.Free Shipping.Money Back Guarantee. Save 79%. www.xxxxxx.com/Sopranos
Sopranos Dvd The Complete Seasons Of Sopranos 1-6 On Sale Only $89 Free Shipping. www.xxxxxsets.com
If I were the buyer, I would buy from the Sponsored Links!
Not just the Sopranos! When I type "HBO", the Sponsored Links gives me: HBO Movie DVDs at Netflix® Start a free trial & rent from over 85K DVDs. No late fees, ever.
I don't even need to buy, I can just watch HBO Movies for free or just pay $4.99 a month.
ebay has betrayed us all!
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str** (359 ) Sep-25-07 06:14 PDT 60 This site is looking more and more like those ad farms. Flashing banners, and so much clutter. I usually back out in a hurry and never go back.
As for the announcement, how stupid do they think we are?? So condescending!
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car** (151 ) Sep-25-07 06:23 PDT 61 eBay Search: Plus Size Career Blouse 1x
1st. eBay Listings 2nd. Ebay Express Listings
Then the following 'clickable' links to offsite businesses.
Sponsored Links
Plus Sizes Church Suits Women's church suits. Name brands. Plus size women's. Suits matching hat and purse. www.sundaysverybest.com
Old Navy Women's Plus Fashion that fits. The latest looks in sizes 16-30 exclusively online. www.oldnavy.com/plus
Lane Bryant's Plus Sizes Lane Bryant has fashions for women who shop for style, not just size. www.lanebryant.com
Eddie Bauer® Plus Size Find your perfect fit this Summer. Shop Eddie Bauer® for Plus sizes. www.EddieBauer.com
Fashionable Plus Size Clothing SizeAppeal offers a great selection of beautiful clothes for curvy women in sizes 14 - 28, 1X - 4X. www.sizeappeal.com
I would love to see how many customers on eBay actually follow those links and make a purchase.
-Tammy
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sho** (93820 ) Sep-25-07 07:03 PDT 62 Just for the record, ALL sellers are feeling the pain, Big and Small. This conversation that you are having is being paralleled on the Pesa board. We are all shaking our heads wondering what is going on. We are using what ears that will listen to convey the same message that you are expressing here. Be assured that your thoughts are shared with our organization and we appreciate your input. Hopefully together we can reach solution to this incredible problem.
David Hardin Pesa Board Member
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great-lakes-wholesale (4 ) Sep-25-07 07:16 PDT 63 When running yahoo pay-per-click ads for our website we have received both traffic and sales directly from ads running on ebay.
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bri** (1160 ) Sep-25-07 07:20 PDT 64 Etown- your Ebaynese is splendid ! Another wonderful and accurate translation ! Good work...
Hey Mr. MBA Advertising Genius,in response to the load of manuer that you are trying to shovel down our throats...I have something you can analyze...the two fingers located in the middle of each of my two hands that are up,while the rest of my fingers (and 2 thumbs) are curled inwards in like a fist formation...I'll give you a clue...I'm smiling but not waving hello...
Do you really think people here are that stupid to buy that load of carp you are selling ?
You keep believing that...and eventually...you're gonna wake up one day back at the Jiffy Lube where you came from, because there ain't gonna be anything to advertise when the buyers and sellers are gone.
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..." Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
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bri** (1160 ) Sep-25-07 07:25 PDT 65 Thanks shoetime for stopping in and posting. It certainly is a serious problem that affects everyone on this site. I don't see how it can be viewed by Ebay as something that is beneficial to the growth of thisvenue. How is this "bringing back the magic" ? The only thing I see it doing as far as "magic" is making buyers and sellers go "poof".
Madame Kazoo Kitty
"Look into my eyes...you will obey those that wear Fruit Helmets..." Proud member of the Fruit Helmet Club since 5-31-07
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luc** (2373 ) Sep-25-07 07:41 PDT 66 Doesn't eBay get paid only if people -do- click on the links? That's how most advertising of this nature works. So, I guess eBay is just putting these ads up there for their own health.
Why not put Stores items up there, so that eBay gets paid a Final Value Fee when people actually BUY SOMETHING. Or even multiple items. I'll say it again- my eBay fees USED to be triple what they are now - when stores were in search and before the fee increase sent me to focus most of my efforts on my dot com site.
As long as we are advertising off-eBay links that we don't intend for anyone to actually click on, why not let me advertise my website?
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ete** (1450 ) Sep-25-07 07:44 PDT 67 Is Mr. Hartman still working for eBay this morning?? Oh, he is. Well, that should tell us something.
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kat** (3397 ) Sep-25-07 07:47 PDT 68 The sad thing is that for every Steve Hartman that leaves eBay - a new one follows with even dumber ideas. They all have only one mission - impress Meg and Bill with your great money making ideas that put more revenue in eBays pocket. You don't need to consider Ebay sellers and buyers - just the bottom line.
All these new ideas keep Meg and Bill from getting bored while lining their pockets so that they don't have to look for a new playground (they just create a new one here). Nothing will improve at eBay until there is a complete sweep of management. Pierre's entrepreneur spirit is long gone.
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tct** (2084 ) Sep-25-07 08:09 PDT 69 I really feel a protest coming on here................ what's the best time to pull listings and/or stop listing? No wonder they gave us free listings for September. Shoulda known there was a catch.
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tct** (2084 ) Sep-25-07 08:17 PDT 70 I just did a search on Ebay for "amazon" and there are several auctions for amazon gift certificates. Funny. Lets all list one on the same day. LOL
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san** (2794 ) Sep-25-07 08:21 PDT 71 When I do a search for one of my best sellers- I get this 433 items found for: Felina from core and 3385 items found for: Felina in All Stores Categories. At the bottom of the page I find my biggest competitors on the internet. All huge companies- Sponsored Links Bare Necessities: Felina Lingerie Shop for Felina Bras Seen on Oprah. $5.00 Flat-Rate Shipping Everyday. www.BareNecessities.com Buy Felina Underwear Buy Beautiful Felina Lingerie. Free Ship Over $50! Shop Felina. www.TheLingerieStoreUSA.com Buy Felina Lingerie Large selection, 3 views per style, free shipping with $70 or more. www.HerRoom.com Buy Felina Bras We have bras for women of all sizes and bust lines. Find your girdles, shapewear, and sleepwear at our online store. www.frish.com Felina on Sale Compare prices and save on a huge selection of felina. www.DesignerApparel.com
As sellers we certainly have been sold out by Ebay and it shows me that Ebay the corporation has no loyalty to it's own sellers. Store owners have known this but I am glad to see other sellers are now experiencing the same sad realization.
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eto** (2637 ) Sep-25-07 09:10 PDT 72 Al Kaline autograph - 24 items in core
Store appears in core search. Cool. Showing 30 of 135 items - Meaning, the below links are appearing on the First page of core search ahead of ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE store listings on Second page, including my listings.
Al Kaline Autographed Sports Memorabilia Get authentic Al Kaline Autographed sports memorabilia. Thousands of affordable signed jerseys, balls, helmets, photos and more at Fantastic Memorabilia. www.fantasticmemorabilia.com
Al Kaline Memorabilia Al Kaline Autographs Wide variety of sports collectibles. www.collectiblesofthegame.com Al Kaline Autograph Kaline Jerseys, Autographs & More Low Prices, $4.99 shipping. www.FansEdge.com
Al Kaline Autograph Find Low Prices and Multiple Offers al kaline autograph. shopping.yahoo.com ______________________
Now ya could list numerous OTHER items here.
Such as:
Business Ethics (5th Edition) by Richard T. De George
Integrity Service: Treat Your Customers Right-Watch Your Business Grow (Hardcover) by Ron Willingham (Author)
Customer Service on the Internet by Jim Sterne
Items that don't compete with our items that Ebay could find VERY useful. Start clicking.
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-25-07 09:34 PDT 73 Hi Shoetime! Saw your excellent post on the stores board. I have been one of the most vocal critics of this advertising policy. If it is possible for PESA to get an audience with ebay management in San Jose I would like to travel to ebay (at my own expense) to represent store boardies and the everyday seller in this matter. Please let me know if such a meeting can be arranged. Keep up the fight!
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thbrd94 (0 ) Sep-25-07 09:43 PDT 74 "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTIAN" I thought someone said one that Steve Hartman was Manager of Analytical Applications eBay Singapore.
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gone2deriver (0 ) Sep-25-07 10:26 PDT 75 Here is Steve's Resume from Spoke.com:
Steve Hartman Title: Manager, Analytical Applications
Well we can see where Steve picked up his business ethics, Accenture. Accenture was a spin off from Arthur Anderson.... The company responsible for Enron's accounting.
Further you will note according to the Spoke.com profile Steve worked for Accenture HR Services:
You will note that they are an Outsourcing agency.
According to Wikipedia:
Accenture has been criticized repeatedly by Lou Dobbs of CNN and others for moving some jobs outside the U.S. that results in loss of work and employment for some U.S. citizens. This is because Accenture utilizes global Delivery Centres in South Asia and Southeast Asia (such as Bangalore and Mumbai in India, and, Manila and Cebu in the Philippines) to reduce cost and increase profit margin in outsourcing deals with major U.S. companies. This enables Accenture to perform work (such as software development and call centre support) at a greatly reduced employee cost as compared to U.S. employees.
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psy** (281 ) Sep-25-07 11:07 PDT 76 Anyone remember how eBay complained that Stores used up too much band width and server space? Yet there is plenty of both for adds that are inn direct competition with both eBay's sellers and even eBay its self.
Would be hilarious if it were not so sad and disgusting.
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just-thinking (11 ) Sep-25-07 11:08 PDT 77 We are getting NICE traffic and sales to both our WEBB SITES directly from eBAY -- and at an advertising cost that is favorable compared to overall eBAY costs.
I am wondering if eBay is close to buying Yahoo or they are partnering up even closer or merging in the future. Then eBay keeps all the revenue with the paid advertising as well.
eBay wants store sellers now to do most of their own paid advertising and free ones like Squidoo. Anyone who does Squidoo should only be sending traffic to their own website or to the other totally free selling sites. And the Yahoo paid advertising should send people to one's own website but eBay I believe is banking on paying that to get people into their stores.
eBay is setting everyone up just like they did with the Bait and Switch with the fill up them stores and pull the rug out. They now want sellers to pay the vast majority of their advertising. What are those store listing fees for?
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pri** (388 ) Sep-25-07 11:16 PDT 78 You don't even have to do a search to see major directly competing ads. (altho the wimpy little store link does come before them):
Just go to the main Jewelry category, then click on rings and then gemstone rings and you'll get treated to plenty of directly competing ads on the first page without even doing a keyword search.
Of course if you do enter a keyword search, say for instance "sapphire diamond", you'll be treated to even more directly competing ads, and some of them more specific to your keyword search, such as this one:
Sapphire Diamond Rings Men's and Womens Rings for Less. Buy Sapphire Diamond Rings fast. calibex
Plus a more new directly competing ads for Blue Nile, Jewelry Television and many more, if you hadn't seen enough already.
Yep, there's LOTS of choices on eBay now. You bet your bootie. But don't worry, eBay's programming has gotten SO advanced it can figure out when a visitor intends to buy anything on eBay or not! Isn't that fabulous! So it's really only those visitors who came here with absolutely no intention of buying anything here that are clicking on those ads anyway, and it's really so so silly of all you eBay sellers to get worked up about it.
Clear your Cookies Go to the home page Type dell in the Search Box See a Big Yellow Dell Notebook Ad?
No no competition from these ads...
(You may have to do a single reload/refresh)
,
pri** (388 ) Sep-25-07 11:49 PDT 81 Thank you very much to the PESA member who dropped in. I do hope PESA will have some success at communicating with eBay about this issue. Regular store sellers who visit this board have been shown to have no influence or importance to eBay.
Someone commented (i don't want to go back and find it right now) that they were surprised that it took sellers this long to start making a fuss about this issue.
I don't know about everyone else, but I think the reason is, like usual, even though we know we've been led down the primrose path before by eBay, we listened to Cobb's soothing reassurances that there would be no directly competing ads.
And at first when we saw offsite ads appearing, they were pretty non threatening, such as financing, insurance, etc. So we thought OK, eBay really is going to do right this time.
From what I saw, the ads became more competitive a little at a time. And as they did, eBay got bolder and bolder. You know, sellers who are actively trying to make a buck here are busy. They checked the ads, saw nothing terribly upsetting about them, and went back to work.
I think now many of them are starting to recheck during the course of their usual research for how to write their titles, what price others are asking, etc. and are getting shocked at how much the ads have changed since their inception. Many don't do searches all the time since they're so familiar with they're product. Time is money, and every minute you spend doing searches for research purposes, posting on this board, etc., takes away from actually going out and finding PRODUCT, listing it, selling it, packing it and shipping it. There's only so much time in a day.
So it takes awhile sometimes to notice things. But they are noticing now, and as time goes by, more will notice.
eBay thought this seemingly quiet acceptance of directly competing ads would continue, so they got brazen about it, until now they are completely out in the open with their horns, tail and hooves showing for all to see. And we certainly are seeing and getting into an uproar about it now.
And Lo! The serpent speaks, hissing to the masses "Calm thyselves! For only heathens with no intentions to trade with you shall go elsewhere."
Someone else commented somewhere they were afraid for eBay's soul. eBay lost its soul when they went public years ago. It is now just a corporation with bad, short-sighted management, and that is being kind to them and giving them the benefit of the doubt that it's only stupidity. Franky my opinion is that it is worse than that. It is management who intends to show record profits and then retire before the damage they knowingly did begins to rear its ugly head. HOW COULD THEY NOT KNOW DIRECTLY COMPETING OFFSITE ADS ARE DAMAGING?
Kat (primsaw)
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// // //
For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
FYI apologist itspostingtime posts spin and damage control for eBay ...
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From eBay Stores Forum Directly Competing Sponsored Ads/Links On Search Results http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000460987&tstart=0&mod=1194020545178
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pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 17:25 PDT I noticed a certain thread with over a thousand posts disappeared just now. So I'm starting this one for those of us who are unhappy about directly competing ads on the search result pages to discuss them. These ads show up in a box usually near the bottom of every search result page.
Many eBay officials have made statements that indicated that directly competing ads would not appear on search results, yet we keep seeing them.
Kat
men*** (3926 ) Nov-01-07 17:33 PDT 1
another 7 day vacation?
You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who can do nothing for them or to them. ~Malcolm Forbes
pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 17:38 PDT 2 I'm surprised that thread survived as long as it did. However, I do think the subject is an important one and merits discussion.
Kat
goo*** (450 ) Nov-01-07 18:59 PDT 3 I just saw one where the sponsored links showed gallery pictures! Maggie
pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 19:09 PDT 4 Maggie - That is a first isn't it? I don't think I've seen that yet. Just gets worse and worse.
Kat
san*** (2847 ) Nov-01-07 19:15 PDT 5 kat I had a feeling that thread's days were numbered. That's why I posted that warning. Official Ebay has become testy and their tolerance level is really low right now. Your thread sat there like a big pimple on the end of the proverbial Ebay nose publicly reminding them that not everything they say is true. I wish you luck on your crusade and you know you have my full support.
jus*** (11 ) Nov-01-07 19:17 PDT 6 To keep this thread "safe", it might be a good idea not to copy and paste in those websites.
pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 20:50 PDT 7 Yes JT. I don't believe I ever put a working link in any of my posts to the offending websites but I think I remember some did.
Bout time for Commonsense to repaste her best post with all those quotes from eBay officials, eh?
Kat
eto*** (2649 ) Nov-01-07 21:24 PDT 8 Repeatedly, we asked for a pink.
No response.
09/24/2007
thru
11/01/2007
1160 posts.
Repeatedly. To explain the reason why identical off site ads were placed on the same page as a potential buyers search when IT was repeatedly stated by mangement that this would not happen.
Repeatedly we asked.
No response.
Except to nuke.
Class act.
pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 21:35 PDT 9 Hey etown, I wonder if your timeline was the last straw?
Kat
eto*** (2649 ) Nov-01-07 21:50 PDT 10 Hey Kat. I took off after my post so I don't know how many, or contents, of what followed.
Sometimes the truth is an ugly thing.
pri*** (405 ) Nov-01-07 21:57 PDT 11 Me either etown. I worked on updating the petition to remove the stars and then relisted some stuff.
Blast from the past: Quote from Bill Cobb's 5/26/06 announcement:
"For instance, we’ll be looking at placements at the bottom of search results pages if there are no matching items found."
Well, that was nice and reassuring to us eBay sellers, wasn't it? Unfortunately, every search I do now, even if it has zillions of matching items, has directly competing sponsored ads.
Kat (primsaw)
eto*** (2649 ) Nov-01-07 22:02 PDT 12 Seriously, once again.
Pinks, what can Ebay sellers, specifically store owners, expect from these ads?
Are they going to continue to be identical matching items on same page views or not?
You all can think I'm a jerk. I have my moments. That's entirely irrelevant. I'm asking a legitimate question that pertains to all store owners and IT should be addressed by management.
Can we expect these ads to appear on only null results on a search?
Can we expect these ads to appear as only related items on a search?
Or are they going to continue to be directly competing off site ads on identical matches on same page views of search?
If any of you ran your business on Ebay, if you had an Ebay store, you would definitely request a response from management.
We aren't any different than you. We would like to know.
Seriously, answer the question.
kar*** (1738 ) Nov-01-07 23:02 PDT 13 I have hundreds of screen shots if anyone needs them...very easy with the "Snapping Tool" add-on to Firefox
Here is just a random snap of a seller's previous complaint about Shopping dot com on an item search:
eBay owned? Yes
But look at the links to Amaz-- here :
Want 100 more screen shots? I have them all.
Steve Hartman- are you ready to comment on your brilliant decision to include off-site Competing Ads to eBay?
We PAY to place our ads here, this is not the PPC site I signed onto a few years back.
Too much work (arounds) for too little return, IMO.
K3 "We get flack that we're trying to control search, but we're letting the buyers vote with their clicks and say what's relevant," says search-meister King. "It's a big, big, big change for us."
hom*** (15 ) Nov-02-07 00:21 PDT 14 That screen shot is for shopping.com they are owned by ebay. They also show express items in the mix.
We PAY to place our ads here, this is not the PPC site I signed onto a few years back.
And your ads are here. I see nothing in the UA that ebay promises not to run other forms of ads. _____________________________________
Save the whales, Collect the whole set.
dis*** (26 ) Nov-02-07 00:40 PDT 15 I just saw one where the sponsored links showed gallery pictures!
It's been going on for at least a few days now. I've been searching for a car stereo and there have been ads from Circuit City, Crutchfield and now etronics.
Do a search for pioneer deh 1500
jam*** (990 ) Nov-02-07 01:00 PDT 16 Yikes! Anybody know where those pics are coming from? Is that still yhoo? I didn't know pics were hooked up at all with Yhoo sponsered ads...
I just got a hit on my website from an ebay search that returned over 600 ebay listings. Even tho there were lots of items to choose from on eBay they are still sending peeps off site. And, all the ads were directly competing with the keyword entered into the eBay search.
hom*** (15 ) Nov-02-07 01:19 PDT 17 Yikes! Anybody know where those pics are coming from? Is that still yhoo? I didn't know pics were hooked up at all with Yhoo sponsered ads...
it has nothing to do with yahoo. It's shopping.com another ebay company. I just got a hit on my website from an ebay search that returned over 600 ebay listings. Even tho there were lots of items to choose from on eBay they are still sending peeps off site. And, all the ads were directly competing with the keyword entered into the eBay search.
A hit or a sale? Many people search around before they buy. _____________________________________
Save the whales, Collect the whole set.
dis*** (26 ) Nov-02-07 01:35 PDT 18 It's not all shopping.com the search I did does not mention that site.
dis*** (26 ) Nov-02-07 01:37 PDT 19 circuit city and crutchfield came up while searching for a stereo that is direct competition and taking people off here.
I got a list of core items, followed by a list of store items, followed by "sponsored links" that did indeed include a pic of the product. There is nothing to actually indicate in this case that Shopping.com is involved (at least, nothing I could see)...and the links DO follow the small "Sponsored links" title.
So, I don't know if they are related to Shopping.com or the Yahoo ads.
However, I think it should be mentioned that none of the items shown are actually a pioneer deh 1500 (the actual search term)...they are pioneer products, but they are NOT the model in the search term.
Of course, other may see something different, I'm just reporting what I saw.
hom*** (15 ) Nov-02-07 02:55 PDT 21 circuit city and crutchfield came up while searching for a stereo that is direct competition and taking people off here.
Plus they have gallery.
look at the screen shot above they are from shopping.com
Yahoo doesn't have this form of listing. Shopping.com does. I got a list of core items, followed by a list of store items, followed by "sponsored links" that did indeed include a pic of the product. There is nothing to actually indicate in this case that Shopping.com is involved (at least, nothing I could see)...and the links DO follow the small "Sponsored links" title.
They don't need to indicate anything, but that's what they are. _____________________________________
Save the whales, Collect the whole set.
cho*** (2220 ) Nov-02-07 04:48 PDT 22 Karen, I am totally NOT seeing those types of ads. IPT told me on the other thread it might be because I opted out of ebay sending me custom ads (when that user agreement change was introduced). Can you confirm did you opt out of that and is that why you all are seeing those ads?
Green acres is the place to be Secret Agent: Fruity
cho*** (2220 ) Nov-02-07 04:51 PDT 23 Also, I have a question for anyone who can doesn't mind answering. I dont purchase other types of paid ads because I am for the most part low volume and I dont see it as an affordable cost for me. Who else is in that same boat?
Seeing that there it seems that those who can afford shop dot com they get seen another way and for zon, i dont think that's the merchant paying for that... I think that is the venue paying for that ad. Right?
Green acres is the place to be Secret Agent: Fruity
hom*** (15 ) Nov-02-07 06:13 PDT 24 I dont purchase other types of paid ads because I am for the most part low volume and I dont see it as an affordable cost for me. Who else is in that same boat?
The ads, no matter what form, should pay for themselves several times over. I have unlimited budgets on my ads since they all produce sales.
Seeing that there it seems that those who can afford shop dot com they get seen another way and for zon, i dont think that's the merchant paying for that... I think that is the venue paying for that ad. Right?
Amazon does pay for some ads. They also have lots of affiliates that run ads, list items & promote the site.
Of course the seller could pay for ads if they wanted to. _____________________________________
I , too, had noticed that in the screenshot picture of the turkey search, the items are very definitely labeled as coming from Shopping.com. However, the pioneer items I looked at are NOT. The only label is "sponsored ads", which seems to be eBay's term of choice for the Yahoo supplied ads.
You know more about online ads than I do, and I'm not trying to argue one way or another. I was just pointing out the distinction, in case it was significant.
chop,
I think you maybe only got half of what I was saying in that post. Let me try to re-explain. Whether your preference is on or off, eBay will still show you ads. The difference is, if it's on, you'll see ads targeted to you, and if it's off, you'll see ads not targeted to you.
But that's just one aspect of what eBay has said about the ads. So forget that for a moment, OK?
The other aspect, really, the more important one, is that Yahoo displays ads depending on the ID's history.
First, let me give you a non-ad related example. If you have, say, a buying ID and a store selling ID, try clicking the stores tab in the header, first logged in as a store seller, then logged in on your buying ID.
You should see one landing page as a store seller , and a different landing page as a buyer.
the store seller page has the info about how to improve your store, etc. (You know, the page with the seamstress that sandra thinks is so ugly LOL)
But a different page is shown to buying IDs, usually with a "Shop ebay stores" ad replacing the seamstress. (If you don't have a buying ID, I think if you just don't log in as a store seller, and maybe clear your cache and cookies, you should see the "buyer" landing page.)
Which makes sense. As the Stores hub, it performs two functions, one for sellers and one for buyers.
Now, here's the thing, Yahoo does a similar thing with the sponsored ads (according to what eBay said about it a while ago, sorry, I don't have the quote) This is the way it's supposed to work, I don't doubt that it's imperfect in practice, but here goes:
If the searching ID is a frequent buyer on ebay, Yahoo does not show ads that compete, because there is a high likelihood that the ID is going to buy from an ebay seller. If the ID has spent a lot of time here, but had not bought anything in a long time, then Yahoo is more likely to show that ID more competitive ads, because the ID is less likely to buy from an eBay seller.
I'm sure there's all sorts of metrics involved with this, so that's probably way more simplified than the way it is actually handled by the computers.
In other words, which ads you see will be determined in part by your preferences, but also by your ID's buying history and so forth. I hope that makes sense, I'm not sure I explained it very well.
cho*** (2220 ) Nov-02-07 07:43 PDT 26 OK, now it makes more sense IPT, now that you added all that! LOL. I buy alot of stuff on ebay and I really only search for the same things. So it would make sense that is why I dont see much PLUS I am opted out.
Green acres is the place to be Secret Agent: Fruity
jus*** (11 ) Nov-02-07 07:47 PDT 27 If a person has ad blocker programs on their computer they may not see some/many ads, the same if the browser they use is set to not show some/many ads.
For those who want to try out contextual ads, since click river is new and those ads show up on one of the very top sites, seems that would be a way to go and especially now before the holidays.
kbi*** (2340 ) Nov-02-07 08:05 PDT 28 If the searching ID is a frequent buyer on ebay, Yahoo does not show ads that compete..
As I said, I'm not saying it's a perfect system. I'm merely explaining what eBay had said about how the system is supposed to work.
I also think that your definition of a competing ad and Yahoo's definition might be different.
pri*** (405 ) Nov-02-07 09:22 PDT 30 Certainly not a perfect system, since it shouldn't be here at all.
Even if it works exactly the way IPT suggests (and that's probably a pretty good theory), then users with mostly selling activity and little or no buying activity (like me) would be seeing the worst kind of sponsored ads. (which I do) What is the result of that?
The seller gets ideas such as: "Wow! Look at all the exposure those other websites are getting. Look how often these links lead to the river. Maybe I should be selling there!" Not good for ebay.
That has spawned the birth of the "Do You Swim In The River" type threads where everyone is all excited about selling there and yakking about the how to's and so forth.
Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC. IP Address:68.208.128.89 (ARIN & RIPE IP search) IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-FLORIDA Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited DMOZ no listings Y! Directory: see listings Data as of: 14-Jun-2005
// // //
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/quotes Invasion of the Body Snatchers (5 February 1956)
"They're here already! You're next! You're next, You're next... " Dr. Miles J. Binnel
//
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_Snatchers The Body Snatchers.
"The Body Snatchers is a 1955 science fiction novel by Jack Finney, originally serialized in Colliers Magazine in 1954, which describes Earth being invaded by seeds which have drifted to Earth from space. The seeds take over human bodies and replace them with simulations grown from plantlike pods, perfect physical duplicates who kill and dispose of their human victims."
... "Bennell and Driscoll barely escape Mill Valley"
//
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_the_Body_Snatchers Invasion of the Body Snatchers
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a 1956 science fiction film." ... "The screenplay was adapted from Finney's novel"
Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC. IP Address:68.208.128.89 (ARIN & RIPE IP search) IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-FLORIDA Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited DMOZ no listings Y! Directory: see listings Data as of: 14-Jun-2005
// // //
And who is Haggin Marketing?
http://www.hagginmarketing.com/contact/
Contact Us
Call Jeff Haggin, President and CEO, to find out more, request a return phone call, schedule a meeting, discuss a project you want us to review, or just to talk shop.
San Francisco (Headquarters) Haggin Marketing, Inc. 100 Shoreline Highway Mill Valley, CA 94941 Driving Directions
Contact: John Wynn, VP, Business Development Phone: 415-289-1110 Fax: 415-289-0120 Send us an Email
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Contact: Robin Phillips, Director of New Business Development Phone: 312-337-7100 Fax: 312-337-7199
Job Opportunities
If you are interested in working at Haggin Marketing, please send us a cover letter with an electronic version of your resume to [email protected].
Or mail your cover letter, resume, and samples to:
Haggin Marketing, Inc. Attention: Human Resources 100 Shoreline Highway Mill Valley, CA 94941
"In a move intended to augment its multichannel direct marketing services and broaden its national footprint, direct marketing agency Haggin Marketing Inc. has acquired The Chicago Catalog Group.
Haggin Marketing is best known for its catalog marketing expertise. However, in recent years, it has brought in-house services such as Internet marketing and analytics."
//
http://www.orionre.com/Orion_News/recent_news.htm
"A recent example of Web to print is eBay. Haggin has been working with the giant online marketplace for about a year and helped it execute the unusual step last month of mailing printed catalogs to cross sections of its user base Haggin helped select. Haggin designed the catalog to show consumers what kinds of items can be won in eBay auctions and at what prices as well as inform buyers about brand-new products also available."
// // //
From eBay Stores Forum ebayfaves.com data leak http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000563004&tstart=0&mod=1190406384339 http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:uCKfKo3651kJ:forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa%3FthreadID%3D1000563004%26tstart%3D0%26mod%3D1190425629728+%22ebayfaves.com+data+leak
mel*** (14349 ) Sep-20-07 18:05 PDT Hey Everybody. Long time, no see.
I wrote this blog post earlier this evening and I would really like some more debate and input on this topic.
I'm stopping by to post this note on behalf of our marketing team - you're absolutely right that this was a mistake:
We truly apologize for any concern these pages have caused our members. This was an error that has been resolved. All pages no longer contain first name information. Thank you for bringing this to our attention and again, our sincerest apologies for this oversight. We will ensure this does not happen again.
I just posted to your thread on the Stores board as well with an apology from our Marketing department, but you are absolutely right - this was a mistake, and it's been corrected. Bluntly, this shouldn't have happened, and we're taking steps to make sure it doesn't again in the future.
An eBay marketing campaign to 4 million shoppers lets anyone who knows the recipients' eBay User ID learn their first names. Having real names included in emails lends them an air of legitimacy that scammers may use in phishing campaigns.
An eBay user wrote about the personalization gaffe on his eBay blog. Jeff Stannard of the Melrose Stamp Company, wrote, "If I don't study emails now close enough and not notice that my last name is not present from an ebay-looking-generated-email, I might just get a hijacked account as a result of my oversight." (http://tinyurl.com/33wynx). Other users expressed similar concerns on an eBay discussion board thread (http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=1010292224).
eBay recently sent personalized print catalogs through the mail to over 4 million prospective buyers containing URLs to a site called ebayfaves.com. Typing the personalized URLs into a browser sends users to a customized page that displays their first name along with shopping suggestions based on their interests.
Entering random eBay User IDs at the end of the URL brings back either an error page (if not in the database) or a customized page displaying the person's first name.
Ironically, eBay senior director of on-site and direct marketing Shawn Mielke said the problem of spoofed eBay emails was one reason eBay decided to increase its offline marketing efforts when he spoke at the Annual Conference for Catalog, Internet and Multichannel Merchants last year (http://www.dmnews.com/cms/dm-news/catalog-retail/36675.html).
While the ebayfaves.com URL does not expose personal or financial information beyond a user's first name, it can be used in phishing campaigns to help trick unwitting recipients. Last year, AuctionBytes revealed a similar but more serious incident in which anyone could find out if an email address was attached to a PayPal account, and if so, the account holder's full name (http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y06/m03/i27/s04). The person who brought the vulnerability to AuctionBytes' attention said the security hole had been in place for about 1 year and that many scammers had been aware of its existence.
The ebayfaves.com URL is registered to Lanya Zambrano at Haggin Marketing Inc., a third-party company that specializes in direct mail and catalogs. eBay's privacy policy outlines the information it may share with other entities (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html).
eBay and PayPal have areas on their sites devoted to educating users about security issues, and eBay generally recommends users download its toolbar that helps users know if they are on a spoof site.
Update 9/21/07: An eBay moderator posted on the forum discussing this issue the following note: "We truly apologize for any concern these pages have caused our members. This was an error that has been resolved. All pages no longer contain first name information. Thank you for bringing this to our attention and again, our sincerest apologies for this oversight. We will ensure this does not happen again."
For new newsgroup readers, these are not our forum posts. Any comments to the posters below should be made on the applicable thread, marked in bold below.
//
From eBay Stores Forum I am going to eat my words........I take back my previous posts... http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000436800&start=0 http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:T-xgOBBXeTwJ:forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa%3FthreadID%3D2000436800%26tstart%3D0%26mod%3D1190430047719+%22i+am+going+to+eat+my+words
.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-20-07 03:09 PDT Just for the craic I decided to see what the story was with all this search lark on Ebay.
I searched for a "silver claddagh ring" listed on Ebay.ie only. Search returned many items, a couple of them on Ebay.ie, most listed on ebay.com but all fo them in Ireland. now I hadnt asked for items to be in Ireland. I asked for the results to be listed on ebay.ie, so there is one error in the search function.
Then I did a search for the same again "silver claddagh ring" this time on ebay.ie with no advanced options. Low and behold the place was flooded with results from ebay.com and some on ebay.ie which was fine as I didnt want to filter out the results.
I found an item listed on ebay.ie 120160949146 so I did a search on this item with the first four keywords on the title "sterling silver irish celtic" and loads of results came up. I looked for that specific item by looking at the end times and low and behold it wasnt there, but you bet your prize pony that the .com listings were on the .ie search results!
I have just found out what Ebay is at. Its manipulating the searches to bits and not giving a true picture. Surely if I search on Ebay.ie then the Ebay.ie or .co.k listing will come up first? Asked in "live help" and I was told, "thats weird". Damn straight its weird, its downright unjust and unfair to the people that list on Ebay.ie
I whole heartedly apologise for being so harsh in my other posts about the negativity, altho I would still like to remain positive about this but Ebay has just shown me what truly lies beneath!!!
27 replies Date posted Reply #
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-20-07 03:11 PDT 1 of 27 second paragraph correction - I searched on ebay.com for the ebay.ie listing but no joy.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-20-07 03:13 PDT 2 of 27 actually the fourth paragraph it wa,s - really fkd up this thread lol
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 03:33 PDT 3 of 27 -
And you found just one of the problems with search.
Another major one if one has a store it is very hard for buyers to every find those items. So a question is what are the listing fees for store items for?
And if you go to the Technical Issues board it has been full of glitches for years now.
All the manipulations and glitches limit the amount of sales sellers can make here.
And then there was them pulling out of Goog Ads and when they started up again and I think based on what they said it would be cut down. Sellers pay a lot in stores and core/auctions and to not have proper advertising cuts down on the amount of sales.
The sales before SIS (stores in search) was ok, the sales during SIS were pretty darn good, the sales after SIS nearly stopped for many.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 03:41 PDT 4 of 27 And check out this thread. There was also another one about this earlier but the problem was still not fixed. This is just yet another problem and there are so many problems would be hard to count just how many. All these problems day after day month after month year after year results in lost sales for many sellers. And all the hiding they did after SIS to make sure store items would not sell like they did before SIS is one of the very worst manipulations this company did to sellers so again what are those store listing fees for?
chopsueysisters (2192 ) Sep-20-07 03:43 PDT 5 of 27 Irish, between the various sites there is inconsistency on how search is displayed. Certain sites default to local country listings with an option to expand. For the US site, Ebay doesn't allow us that. It seems a bit backwards to me because the US has the largest volume of us listings already, you'd think it would improve the user experience. But ummm I think ebay wants to show us everything and maybe get us to buy from other countries more (because they get more money via paypal)
I dont know, I just dont know anymore..
Der-der der-der-der DER-DER Green acres is the place to be!
.
huckster3000 (292 ) Sep-20-07 06:26 PDT 6 of 27 a few weeks back i received a "favorite seller" email from one of my favorited ebay store sellers (a media dealer). there was a dvd in the email that i was interested in, so i clicked the link to check it out and was taken to the seller's store listing. so far so good.
then i decided to do a title search to see if i could find this particular dvd a little cheaper. search returned nothing. nada. zip. zero results. even though i had just been looking at a listing for this dvd title in an ebay seller's store! (and yes, the "add store listings" option box was selected.) i spent the next 5 - 10 minutes trying various searches with various options settings to find this dvd and all come up zero. and none of the searches ever returned this store seller's listing that i knew was there - which i verified again by going directly to his store on my own, where surprise surprise i found the listing that search couldn't. finally i just gave up in frustration.
suffice to say it's ridiculous.
huckster3000
DEAD END DRIVE-IN DVD
and if i weren't a civil servant / i'd have a place in the colonies / we'd play croquet behind white-washed walls and drink our tea at four / within intervention's distance of the embassy
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 15:13 PDT 7 of 27 -
This thread is a good summary explaining how more and more sellers are catching on to what has been going on after SIS
savoir-faire08 (92 ) Sep-20-07 15:21 PDT 8 of 27 irishcelticdesigners
You are a nice person to exercise insight and actually acknowledge your erroneous judgment from before. Congrats
Most of the people who post about glitches and the stupid star system do not hate eBay. There is a small minority of posters who, for one reason or the other, attempt to stifle these truth seeking or solution seeking voices and call them Negative Nancy-s or whatnots.
If eBay has a clever leadership, they better read about the problems and do something, before they alienate even their most dedicated fans and / or some other company that listens to its customers better will force them out of business. Posting the problems here is for the most part the only way to get something done, because e-mails may get canned responses, and if you write them back, yet another canned response will be sent with apologies, of course, btu not addressing the issue at hand.
savoir-faire08 (92 ) Sep-20-07 15:51 PDT 9 of 27 btu = but
savoir-faire08 (92 ) Sep-20-07 15:56 PDT 10 of 27 finally i just gave up in frustration.
suffice to say it's ridiculous.(huckster]
Huckster, it IS ridiculous! Plus, it is self-defeating for eBay! ebay only makes money if its sellers make. Hiding our store items or making it difficult for potential buyers to find them = monetary loss for seller = monetary loss for eBay
One does not need a Harvard degree to understand this simple mathematical calculation.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 16:06 PDT 11 of 27 Hiding our store items or making it difficult for potential buyers to find them = monetary loss for seller = monetary loss for eBay
I have thought that a long time but reading these threads for a number of years I came to the conclusion that the more they hide items or prevent sales the more re-listing fees eBay makes. And eventually, the item will sell so they get that as well. So I believe eBay has fine-tuned/tweaked the "smart" search to do just that.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 17:49 PDT 12 of 27 irishcelticdesigns
On your site don't your boards raise many of this issues? Or maybe because it is smaller not as many posters to really dig out all the truth as to what has been going on for a long time. Or maybe your eBay.ie site is less prone to the massive amount of problems on the USA site?
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-20-07 17:53 PDT 13 of 27 -
I just went to the ebay.ie site and to the board that looks to be equivalent to this one but takes one to the UK boards.
And because of what chopsueysisters said in this thread now makes me wonder if eBay is much kinder to other international sites and USE sellers on this site much more and make much larger messes.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-21-07 01:29 PDT 14 of 27 Well Ebay's EU headquarters is in Dublin so they might have servers over in Europe for the EU, not sure but the boards over there dont seem to have as many problems. Although they just might not be aware of the many problems you guys are finding.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-21-07 01:31 PDT 15 of 27 savoir-faire08 Its nice to be able to admit defeat or that you are wrong about things. Altho who likes defeat eh? lol
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 01:45 PDT 16 of 27 the boards over there dont seem to have as many problems. Although they just might not be aware of the many problems you guys are finding
It could be two things. Maybe things work for some reason better internationally than here in the USA or what you just said.
I have said that before too that I think it is a matter of how much one sees. And that takes quite a bit of being attentive and observing what goes on. I also think some posters have not read as many threads as others so less informed. When I first really seeing questionable things going on a few years ago and had my speculations, I would check the boards and sure enough others were as well. And many times I could go verify what they said and there it was for all to see, for those who did check.
And if some posters who really are good at getting facts and even good speculations out there on the boards left for green pastures then that also could explain some of it. Another thought is maybe those boards are more strickly moderated?
I think too what some posters are missing is that if they already had a number of repeat customers they did not feel the pain as many sellers here did. And that they might be selling products that were more immune to the changes. Also those who do not have stores or are fairly new to stores and were not here before SIS I do not believe they understand just how bad it was after SIS. So it is a matter of knowledge for a good part of it.
Its nice to be able to admit defeat or that you are wrong about things. Altho who likes defeat eh?
It is never defeat to admit one might not have seen a larger picture of something. I really like how you approached this.
If you haven't had an opportunity to read this post, you might consider that as it brings out quite a bit.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-21-07 02:07 PDT 17 of 27 Yeah I had a quick skim over it. Am in work so cant read all of it or I'll be here for ages. I am seeing some fo the bigger picture alright. Have to say I am getting cold feet a bit as I hoped to open a store in four week but I really dont know now.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 02:44 PDT 18 of 27 If you have done auctions for quite awhile and are successful at it, you can get visitors into a store that way. Just make sure you have a very visible link to that store in all your auction listings.
And if you have the kind of products that are in a good or high demand and even better yet unique one has a good chance of being seen more in the stores. If a lot of people sell the same type of product as yours it will be more difficult unless you have lower prices and even with that if those others have repeat customers not as easy.
But think the route to go since this company has pretty much made the store listings invisible is to go the auction route and make that successful and if so then open a store.
If you already have success with auctions that is a good sign that you might do ok with a store.
And if your store is located on the ebay.ie or uk and if the international sites do not have the many types of problems like here in the USA you might be ok to proceed with a store any way. You might consider asking around on the boards over there to find out more how others truly are doing.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 03:12 PDT 19 of 27 Another thing I would strongly recommend is to diversify by at least having your own website in addition to what you do on on eBay.
irishcelticdesigns (25 ) Sep-21-07 05:59 PDT 20 of 27 Yeah I figured that from just reading here. Actually first few posts I read on here months ago I figured that as I kept putting St elsewhere into google thinking it was an auction type site lol every day is a school day
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 13:57 PDT 21 of 27 -
There are also some good alternative sites like the moon and the bird and not sure if you can sell on the Zon but if so might check that out. But having one's own website to me is a must and should be the main business where here and the other alternative sites are secondary and if they work more important.
meecabay (1225 ) Sep-21-07 16:05 PDT 22 of 27 ........
Wow 'just': Your comment above:
"I have thought that a long time but reading these threads for a number of years I came to the conclusion that the more they hide items or prevent sales the more re-listing fees eBay makes. And eventually, the item will sell so they get that as well. So I believe eBay has fine-tuned/tweaked the "smart" search to do just that." by 'just.thinking'
....IS SO INCREDIBLE TO THINK THIS COULD BE HAPPENING!!!.
Even if this is happening by ACCIDENT-result of search manipulation.....
IT would be so very very very WRONG!!!
And, of course, if done PURPOSELY for reason you stated as one way to generate more revenue for the site...
kimonomomo (264 ) Sep-21-07 16:10 PDT 23 of 27 Having once worked for a jeweler or two, I'd suggest anyone doing a search for "claddagh" try some alternative spellings (and that goes for jewelry and jewellry, too). Most people in the US have no idea how to spell claddagh correctly, pronounce it, or even what it is. Sad, but true.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 16:28 PDT 24 of 27 Even if this is happening by ACCIDENT-result of search manipulation
Yes, even by accident and not fixing all the many many many many problems on this site due to neglect or incompetence for this company to allow them to go on is unacceptable. So a question is if they allow them to go on and on and on how is that different doing it on purpose? I believe it is a combination of both, purposefully manipulating and allow glitches to continue for all those dollars they pack into their pockets.
just-thinking (11 ) Sep-21-07 16:33 PDT 25 of 27 Imagine if one was a small business and their software allowed that company to increase their profits due to glitches. The members of that company would tell them all about the glitches for years and not much changes. They take them to court. Do you think that small company would get away saying they did not know or they have other priorities? Judge Judy would have a hay day with that small business owner. How would Judge Judy feel about a small company manipulating whose items are seen and when when all member pay the same?
meecabay (1225 ) Sep-21-07 16:53 PDT 26 of 27 .........
ya know 'just'and anyone reading:
The more I read.... the more I am convinced 'we' are in a very complex maze and so complex that:
...even eBay itself may also be 'stuck' IN this complex maze, so to speak!
....Well, all I continue to know for sure is: I am still here and still here with an open mind!
But, I am beginning to be at a loss-for-words regarding this eBay complex maze as my mind is beginning to see an even bigger view of IT!
And, without knowing all the facts.... all I can do personally is to just post when 'inspired' all that I feel or think or believe and hope that it will also help contribute in some way so that the eBay-WAY will NOT become just a distant memory.
oy vey! ====================================================
kimonomomo (264 ) Sep-21-07 20:00 PDT 27 of 27 Imagine if one was a small business and their software allowed that company to increase their profits due to glitches.
Good work...
![]:)](http://forums.ebay.com/db2/images/emoticons/devil.gif)
Heard This One Before?
Heard This One Before?
EventHorizon1984
28 September 2007
It is common to see recurring themes in science fiction and fiction.
Being a fan of some of the shows listed, this gets noticed every once in a while.
Especially that Earth Bajor 300 year judicial circuit. No wonder the Judge is techy.
//
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
Episode list
Eureka
Episode list
Firefly
Episode list
Forbidden Planet
Northern Exposure
Episode list
Outer Limits
Episode list
Painkiller Jane
Riding Bean
Short Circuit, Short Circuit 2
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Episode list
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Episode list
The Transporter
WALL-E
//
//
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http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809902253/photo/970445428
WALL-E
Pixar Release 2008
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091949/
Short Circuit
9 May 1986
Synopsis
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096101/
Short Circuit 2
6 July 1988
Synopsis
//
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet
Painkiller Jane
The Beast of Bolnar
Airdate 7 September 2007
Synopsis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet
http://estraven.silverday.net/warren/films/forquotes.html
Forbidden Planet
15 March 1956
//
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Try%2C_Try_Again
Eureka
Try, Try Again
Airdate 24 July 2007
Synopsis
http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:65330
Outer Limits
Bellero Shield
Airdate 10 February 1964
Synopsis
//
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eureka_episodes
Eureka
Games People Play
Airdate 31 July 2007
Synopsis
www.tv.com/star-trek-the-next-generation/remember-me/episode/19065/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;4
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Remember Me
Airdate 22 October 1990
Synopsis
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http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/episodes/DS9/detail/68098.html
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Dax
Airdate 14 February 1993
Guest Star: Anne Haney as Judge Renora
Synopsis
http://www.tv.com/northern-exposure/crime-and-punishment/episode/28758/summary.html
Northern Exposure
Crime and Punishment
Airdate 14 December 1992
Guest Star: Anne Haney as Judge Elizabeth Percy
Synopsis
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0662333/
Very Interesting Coincidence, 12 December 2006
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_Bean
Riding Bean
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293662/
The Transporter
//
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(1978_TV_series)
Battlestar Galactica
Saga of a Star World
Airdate 17 September 1978
Lt Starbuck
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293662/quotes
Gall Force: Eternal Story
Released 1986
Lufy
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1001706/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0534725/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0534712/
http://www.tv.com/csi/slaves-of-las-vegas/episode/95249/summary.html
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
Guest Star: Melinda Clarke as Lady Heather Kessler
The Good, the Bad and the Dominatrix
Airdate 10 May 2007
Synopsis
Pirates of the Third Reich
Airdate 9 February 2006
Synopsis
Lady Heather's Box
Airdate 13 February 2003
Synopsis
Slaves of Las Vegas
Airdate 15 November 2001
Synopsis
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0579529/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0579529/plotsummary
Firefly
Heart of Gold
Airdate 4 August 2003
Guest Star: Melinda Clarke as Nandi
Synopsis
/*
Technorati Profile
EventHorizon1984 Log
//
Posted at 20:36 in Commentary, Fantasy and Science Fiction, Film, Television | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBack (0)
Tags: Anne Haney, Battlestar Galactica, Bellero Shield, Crime and Punishment, CSI, Dax, Deep Space Nine, Eureka, Firefly, Forbidden Planet, Gall Force, Games People Play, Heart of Gold, Johnny Five, Lady Heather's Box, Lufy, Melinda Clarke , Northern Exposure, Outer Limits, Painkiller Jane, Pirates of the Third Reich, Remember Me, Riding Bean, Short Circuit, Short Circuit 2, Slaves of Las Vegas, Star Trek, Starbuck, The Beast of Bolnar, The Good the Bad and the Dominatrix, The Next Generation, The Transporter, Try Try Again, WALL-E
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