From eBay Search Forum
VOLUNTEERS needed to help do search tests into UK / US cluster sales
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=1000605413&tstart=0&mod=1196885882598
evonthis (-1 ) Nov-30-07 11:46 PST
Hi
I am posting this post on behalf of rames International ( ebay seller)
We are trying to find out if our listings are appearing in different geographic locations or clumped in groups in select areas. It seems that when some of us have sales, they tend to be in groups which go to certain select areas of the country and the world.
I will be performing a “three stage test.”
Anyone wishing to help would be very welcome. We would also be prepared to do these tests both with UK / US listings.
Test dates Dec 2nd, 4th, 6th, 9th.
Chose when you are available.
To participate, it will be necessary to do the following:
1. Everyone must have their search results to default.
2. All participants must use the exact same words in your search and must search using the same category.
3. We must all start our searches at the same time. (Give or take a few seconds) Lancashire Lad has recommended setting your PC clock to Internet Time (double click the time shown, use the option Internet Time, set to time.windows.com)
4. Use the site you normally search, on such as UK, .com, etc. Just make certain to indicate this when posting your results.
Once the initial search has been done, it will not be necessary to go into a more detailed search. Initially, I would like to see the total numbers found of the selected item.
When you have completed the test, please post your results on the thread, stating what time you did the search and, if you don’t mind, the area from which you are searching.
2 replies Date posted Reply #
cloudberry121 (12 ) Dec-04-07 12:27 PST 1 of 2
I'm sorry but eBay has changed the way Search works and we buyers HATE it. They force us to dig through tons of crap we aren't interested in and it's a tremendous waste of time.
This is unacceptable. I suggest you forget selling on eBay until they return to the original Search system that worked so beautifully.
I'm so angry about their contempt of my time that I'm buying gift cards from major electronic stores to give to my nieces and nephews instead of buying through eBay this Christmas.
evonthis (-1 ) Dec-05-07 12:18 PST 2 of 2
Cloudberry.
Thanks for your reply.
The searches are a mess. IMO everything as got to complicated for a buyer with little time to spare searching for an item. Some of us sellers in the UK have been doing tests coming up with very strange figures.
Some sellers are also experiencing cluster sales. In my case my sold items mainly go to Sussex in the UK. this happens for a couple of weeks, then they will stop going to Sussex instead go to Essex and Glasgow. This pattern repeats itself over and over through the year.
See the link below taken from the UK boards.
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1200169796&start=680
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From eBay Community Question and Answer Board
Community Question and Answer Board
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1200169796&start=680
ramesinternational (0 ) View Listings | Report 14-11-07 13:13 GMT
Hello. Sorry I’ve had to start this thread over. We had a mistake in the first one, so here goes again.
I am trying to find out if our listings are appearing in different geographic locations or clumped in groups in select areas. It seems that when some of us have sales, they tend to be in groups to certain select areas of the country and the world. I will be performing a “three stage test.”
To participate, it will be necessary to do the following:
1. Everyone must have their search results to default.
2. All participants must use the exact same words in your search and must search using the same category.
3. We must all start our searches at the same time. (Give or take a few seconds) Lancashire Lad has recommended setting your PC clock to Internet Time (double click the time shown, use the option Internet Time, set to time.windows.com)
4. Use the site you normally search, on such as UK, .com, etc. Just make certain to indicate this when posting your results.
Once the initial search has been done, it will not be necessary to go into a more detailed search. Initially, I would like to see the total numbers found of the selected item.
When you have completed the test, please post your results on the thread, stating what time you did the search and, if you don’t mind, the area from which you are searching.
For those of you who do not know how to post the results, you can follow the next steps:
1. Scroll up to get rid of the carp at the top of the page but leave the search
boxes showing.
2. Hit the PrtSc (print screen) key located to the left of Scroll Lock or to the right of F12 button on top row of keys on your keyboard
3. Open an Image editing programme (MS Paint will do)
4. Go to Edit & in the drop down menu select "Paste" (this will paste a copy of your eBay search page)
5. Go to File & "Save As"
6. Default is usually "My Documents/ My Pictures"
7. Type in the name "Screenshot 1" and change "Save as type" to "JPEG"
8. When you open the saved picture, you should then see your screenshot, crop out any unwanted info, make a reasonable size and upload to your image host.
9. In order to post it, copy the HTML link from your image host. And paste into your post.
I will run two searches the first day; one for the day shift posters and one for the night shift posters.
The first test will start at 1500 hours and the second at 2000 hours.
Please type the following item, exactly as I have written it, in your search box:
Limoges trinket box
Search in “All Categories” and tick search “UK only.”
Thank you for your help.
Tomorrow I will post another thread for Stage two of the tests and on the following day, Stage three.
GEOGRAPHIC VISIBILITY TEST – volunteers needed
Good morning:
I am trying to find out if our listings are appearing in different geographic locations or clumped in groups in select areas. It seems that when some of us have sales, they tend to be in groups to certain select areas of the country and the world. I will be performing a “three stage test.”
To participate, it will be necessary to do the following:
1. Everyone must have their search results set to default. The easiest way to ensure this is to sign out before doing the search. That way, you automatically will get the default search.
2. All participants must use the exact same words in your search and must search using the same category.
3. We must all start our searches at the same time. (Give or take a few seconds.) Lancashire Lad has recommended setting your PC clock to Internet Time (double click the time shown, use the option Internet Time, set to time.windows.com)
Once the initial search has been done, it will not be necessary to go into a more detailed search. Initially, I would like to see the total numbers found of the selected item.
When you have completed the test, please post your results on the thread, stating what time you did the search and, if you don’t mind, the area from which you are searching.
For those of you who do not know how to post the results, you can follow the next steps:
1. Scroll up to get rid of the carp at the top of the page but leave the search boxes showing.
2. Hit the PrtSc (print screen) key located to the left of Scroll Lock or to the right of F12 button on top row of keys on your keyboard
3. Open an Image editing programme (MS Paint will do)
4. Go to Edit & in the drop down menu select "Paste" (this will paste a copy of your eBay search page)
5. Go to File & "Save As"
6. Default is usually "My Documents/ My Pictures"
7. Type in the name "Screenshot 1" and change "Save as type" to "JPEG"
8. When you open the saved picture, you should then see your screenshot, crop out any unwanted info, make a reasonable size and upload to your image host.
9. In order to post it, copy the HTML link from your image host. And paste into your post.
I will run two searches the first day; one for the day shift posters and one for the night shift posters.
The first test will start at 1500 hours and the second at 2000 hours.
Please type the following item, exactly as I have written it, in your search box:
Limoges trinket box
Set your search in “All Categories” and tick search “UK only,” then press "Search."
Thank you for your help.
Tomorrow I will post another thread for Stage two of the tests and on the following day, Stage three.
Cheers
P.S. - Sorry I can't afford to pay anyone! LOL!
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RAMES
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[email protected] 05-12-07 12:41 GMT 652 of 709
Morning. or is it afternoon
OK so you have all been having more fun. As several people have realised the issues you are raising is because of how search and browse work. I will try and explain it again, but Jimboy has it
When you search it looks in the title for the words you type in. It doesn't care which category the items are in (unless you also choose a category).
When you browse in brings back everything in the category regardless of what is in the title.
So if we think about it the majority of items in the Womens Vintage Clothing category probably don't have "Womens Vintage Clothing" in the title. They will be things like vintage skirt, 20s blouse etc. As a result search will bring back fewer than browse.
Now in the case of Nintendo Wii. I imagine everything in the Consoles->Nintedo Wii will have those words in the title. But hundreds of other items in other categories will also have those words in the title. For example Wii Games, Wii accessories, t-shirts with Wii on, people putting Wii in the title as keyword spamming etc etc. So in this case search wil bring back more items than browse.
I really hope this is clear now.
evonthis
No this is not due to outofdate servers. Yes, at time of listing/sale there is a latency as all the servers refresh which explains the ~1% difference in number of items returned but that is it.
No the constant changes/ tests are not effecting the results we return.
All listings go on all servers.
shiva - I will need you to explain in more detail the problem you are seeing.
George
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[email protected] View Listings | Report 05-12-07 15:27 GMT 668 of 709
#665
do has it
There are items in more than one category. For example the "anti vandal office" ending in about 4 days.
EVERYONE - you can spend all day doing this but search and browse are working as designed and there is nothing wrong with our systems.
George
angels-part (0 ) 05-12-07 15:31 GMT 669 of 709
Hi Everyone
You will not have seen me before but I have been following your discussion with great interest. However having run my own businesses for many years might I suggest that EBay seems to have lost the plot. Big as the organisation is it is still subject to the laws that are laid down by governments and especially those relating to FREE TRADE. EBay’s Chief Executive has also stated that it is the policy of EBay to encourage and promote FREE TRADE. In the Western world there are several agreements which make it illegal to interfere with FREE TRADE. These include the North American Free Trade Agreement, EEC Treaty and in the UK the Competition and Race Relations Act. These laws prohibit the interference with Free Trade in any way and this means that tampering with visibility of items, restricting site access in any shape or form is ILLEGAL. The object of this legislation is to create a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for all traders irrespective of size, creed or race.
So Sorry George, LL and other EBay execs who think that they adjust visibility etc so as to create more revenue for EBay. Better start getting rid of the scammers, porn etc and make EBay a better place to trade before the Office of Fair Trading come knocking at your door. You may not like it but the law is the law. So get back to the principles that Pierre established when he set up EBay many years ago.
[email protected] 05-12-07 15:38 GMT 670 of 709
angels-part
I am not sure where your rant has come from. This thread was created as some users had a perception that visibility was somehow not universal. It has since moved across to a broader understanding of exactly how search/browse works.
George
duck_a_lorange (0 ) 05-12-07 15:47 GMT 671 of 709
George, do -
Thanks. That's it.
Fascinating.
evonthis (-1 ) 05-12-07 15:56 GMT 672 of 709
George.
I still would like to know why I am having a cluster sales pattern e.g. Sales to Sussex for a couple of weeks, then a turnaround with sales going back to Essex as previously.
The idea that people in Sussex like my items for so many weeks, then the Essex people like them for the next few weeks with this pattern occurring over and over through out the year, does not equate to fair trade, or fair value for my fees, money.
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[email protected] 05-12-07 15:59 GMT 673 of 709
evonthis
I have no idea. There is no technical explanation, all the tests show that visibility is pretty much the same (save the 1% latency) and so your items will appear everywhere. All our systems are working correctly and we have absolutley no way of directing traffic based on region, it is just not possible for us to do that.
Some things in life are unexplainable.
George
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angels-part (0 ) 05-12-07 17:04 GMT 678 of 709
Sorry George mine is not just a "rant" just facts which you can verify at the Office of Fair Trading.
The laws regarding FREE TRADE between USA, EEC etc have been in existence for many years and are surprisingly clear. They were specifically put into place to create a level playing field for ALL TRADERS. Interference in any form by ANY organisation however big or small is illegal and leaves that organisation open to legal action by government. Note what is happening with regard to banking charges. I understand the interference of FREE TRADE by EBay by adjustment of visibility by EBay within its search engines has already been brought to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading within the UK in the form of several complaints and they are beginning to investigate the matter. By the admission of yourself and other EBay executives EBay, is interfering with free trade by adjusting just who and what are visible within the search facility. To comply with the law all sellers, wherever they are located are entitled to equal exposure irrespective of sales volume, creed, colour or location. You may not legally restrict this choice and hence EbBay MAY NOT reduce visibility by the means that you and your executives have done or are proposing to do neither may you adjust trade between countries as has been stated several times. It is quite clear from the replies on this thread and others that the actions of EBay with regard to visibility have seriously affected the trade of many businesses. It is quite likely that these businesses would be able to sue Ebay for loss of profits.
It is not a question of understanding how the search facility works but making sure that the results produced by it are not biased towards any seller in any way. Naturally EBay can allow buyers to select who they wish to see giving options but this must be their choice only. Similar laws relate to the freedom of speech a fact that some contributors to these discussion boards might also remember. You may be able to fool some of the people for some of the time but you can’t fool ALL the people ALL the time. You may not like it George but there it is.
[email protected] 05-12-07 17:11 GMT 679 of 709
Given your clear legal accumen you will understand if I maintain my rigth to remain silent for fear of incriminating myself.
Although I am not entirely sure that we are preventing anything.
George
angels-part (0 ) 05-12-07 17:56 GMT 681 of 709
George
Corporate law is something that perhaps all EBay executives might bear in mind. There has been much said by many and the differing results produced by searches using different locations are clear evidence that search engine no longer produce consistent results. This may well leave some EBay executives vulnerable as many executives involved in ENRON found to their cost. So George it would be a loss to all if you were to disappear. Pinks are few and far between. However free speech is what is wanted not the "Part Line".
What I would like to know is how such interference with trading relates to the policy statements made by Meg with regard to the promotion of free trade. Is this a question of the Captain setting a course but those that control the ship's rudder setting a different course? Or perhaps it may simply be due to lack of practical business experience amongst those who are "adjusting search engine results. Of course it might be too much to ask for a clear statement from Meg on search engine manipulation and the law relating to Free Trade.
If you are not sure of the legal implications of the laws regarding FREE TRADE such as the Competition Act in the UK and the EEC then, George, may I suggest that you take advice. Ignorance is not accepted as a valid excuse for flouting the law either in the UK or the USA.
[email protected] 05-12-07 18:21 GMT 682 of 709
Wow, anyone would think that I was the Chairman of the board and not just the monkey with the spanner.
Seriously, if you actually read this thread from start to finish at no point anywhere does it show that we are showing different results to different locations.
Additionally, free trade refers to the ability of anyone to sell without discriminatory obstacle. Well anyone can signup to eBay and list and their item will be shown in search, in exactly the same way as if the next guy came along and listed an identical item. I see no discriminatory obstacle there.
Additionally anyone from any country can access our site and use our search engine to find the item. In the case of the two identical items above both items will appear.
In my opinion that is a much more level playing field that trying to sell on the High Street.
How much freer do you want it!
George
evonthis (-1 ) 05-12-07 18:24 GMT 683 of 709
Well I for one do not feel I am experiencing fair trading.
(1) I do not get the same visibility in a number of my categories. I only get the extra visibility for a few items If listed in collectibles.
(2) The .com site as more sub categories than the UK.co site e.g painting UK = up to 1979, US.com = Up to NOW.
(3). My item go to specific areas only both in the UK & Internationally. e.g Sussex then Essex.
(4) Due to number 3 I end up having to pay more fees than some other sellers, due to having to re-list after re-list, after re-list, still with very little chance of a sale.
(5) Searches have become so complicated for the newbie buyers to find items, causing less sales for the sellers particularly the ones without the added visibility.
(6) Sponsored ads have been put above the page numbers, giving buyers the impression they have seen all the items ebay sellers have for sale. The ads then take buyers to off ebay sites.
More fees for re-lists.
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[email protected] 05-12-07 18:31 GMT 685 of 709
evonthis
1) your items are getting fair trade for the categories they are in - all collectables get visibility, no clothes do - there is no trader based discrimination
2) .com and .co.uk are totally different sites
3) As I have tried to say this is nothing to do with eBay - yes it is odd but that's just the way it is
4) see (3), plus we can't be expected to guarentee sales, some people sell more and some sell less, that is how a marketplace works
5) Searches haven't changed for 10 years. The new system was a test that few people saw and which is now switched off.
6) Sponsored ads effect all sellers equally
George
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[email protected] 05-12-07 18:38 GMT 687 of 709
When Marks & Spencers were experiencing a downturn in sales, or Sainsbury were struggling to grow versus Tesco they adjusted their business model, offered different things and generally reinvented themselves.
Maybe when you are experincing a downturn in sales/price over a prolonged period it is not necessarily the fault of eBay.
Just a thought
George
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evonthis (-1 ) 05-12-07 19:55 GMT 692 of 709
George.
1) your items are getting fair trade for the categories they are in - all collectables get visibility, no clothes do - there is no trader based discrimination
When I put a £29.99 item in collectibles, then one in vintage clother for the same price. I pay the same fees dont I ???????.
.com and .co.uk are totally different sites
But US.com listings are shown by default on the .co.uk site in collectibles vice versus, yet the sellers on the .com site have more sub categories to list in. so more .com items are shown by default on the .co UK site, than UK listings on the .com site.
I gave you a instance of this a couple of weeks ago concerning Art. UK sellers are at a disadvantage.
When Marks & Spencers were experiencing a downturn in sales, or Sainsbury were struggling to grow versus Tesco they adjusted their business model, offered different things and generally reinvented themselves.
But my designer outfits are very much sought after, particularly at this time of the year.
Marks & Spencers had just got old fashioned over the years, needed to bring in younger styles. My designer styles are young, up to date, wanted. Just not being seen as They only seem to get seen mainly in Sussex, then in a couple of weeks they will be seen by Essex buyers.
Something is stopping my items being seen by the maximum amount of buyers.
Vintage clothing people still want these items also.
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angels-part (0 ) 05-12-07 20:11 GMT 693 of 709
Hi George
Perhaps we should point out a few things to you concerning FREE TRADE. The legislation was developed to ensure a level playing field for businesses and to restrict restrictive practices. It was intended that removing restrictive practices competition would be encouraged and both the NAFTA and the EEC treaties are both designed with these aims in mind. They apply equally to both North America or to the EEC and also to trade between these areas as well as trade within the member states within their communities. This means, George, that EBayCOM therefore cannot be set aside from EBayUK as separate entities as you suggest as traders cross their boundaries as either exporters or importers. Trade of course cannot be guaranteed but neither can it be restricted in any way as this would be contrary to the NAFTA and EEC treaties in relation to trade. Therefore Ebay.com cannot have a discriminatory policy which differentiates between EBayCOM and EBayUK. To do so would be considered a restriction of trade contrary to the treaties. Having different categories on different sites may also be considered as an infringement. Neither can EBay legally attempt to adjust trade as was stated by Richard Ambrose with regard to protecting a domestic markets. The legislation also applies to trade within communities, this means George, that you may not adjust visibility of items depending upon sales of sellers, location etc UNLESS YOU GIVE THIS AS AN OPTION TO THE BUYER. Similarly hiding buttons below the bottom of a page so that they are not easily noticed is sharp practice and again might well be considered as an attempt to circumvent the legislation.
Similarly you may not practice racial discrimination. This means that it also illegal to exclude sellers from other countries where the buyer has used the world-wide option. It has been stated by EBay executives that only English speaking sellers are allowed on English speaking sites. Sorry George this is also a no no unless the seller has opted for this in some way. Perhaps you might take a trip to Wales and look at the care that is taken with regard to the Welsh and their language. The omission of Irish, German, French, Italian and other sellers from Ebay.com and Ebay.COUKis an example of this discrimination which is illegal not only from the Racial Discrimination point of view but also the Competition Act. Similarly the policy of permitting certain items such as alcohol for sale on one EBay site and not another is also contrary to the legislation in relation to FREE TRADE.
Finally may I state that I have done my own extensive tests on search engine results and these produce exactly the same results as have been quoted within this thread. These are not slight variations that you suggest but deliberate filtering and selection of search engine results. So George let’s have some straight answers and get this ship back on course as Pierre intended when he sold the broken laser pointer.
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evonthis (-1 ) 05-12-07 20:22 GMT 695 of 709
George.
The paragraph below I have taken from the US. com boards.
This was posted by a very highly respected poster there.
When I have complained to eBay about this, I was told that they have numerous servers that house the databases. Sometimes one (or more, I would guess) of the servers is out of date. So each time a person searches, they may get an up-to-date server or an out-of-date server.
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angels-part (0 ) 05-12-07 22:30 GMT 702 of 709
Evonthis
Servers may well have something to do with visibility but the results produced by the search should be similar. It doesn't explain the fact that you will not find say an item description written in French on Dotcom or DotUK. This is because someone within EBay has decided to interfere with global trade by "Adjusting" the search results. This has been admitted by EBay executives who have stated that English speaking sellers are restricted to English speaking sites. This is contrary to FREE TRADE. If EBay wishes to make it easy for buyers to find items then the way to go about it is to make it such that when the buyer searches for an itme he/she can select which options they would like to use to restrict results. For example there could be buttons which would allow you to deselect other countries or those sellers who do not export. I think severs are being used as a partial excuse to cover up EBay interference.
evonthis (-1 ) 05-12-07 23:45 GMT 703 of 709
Angel.
A lot of posters suggested that buttons be put in place for buyers to narrow their search as they wish when the visibility change came into affect in Feburary.
IMO there are items being put onto old servers, I believe mine are along with other sellers. Why else do my sales have a on going pattern of going to the same areas time after time. IMO my items are not even shown to the maximum amount of English speaking sellers in my own Country U.K. alone internationally.
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[email protected] 06-12-07 13:57 GMT 706 of 709
Right - enough
You are clearly not believing or listening to anything I am writing. Here I will summarise everything and then I am no longer replying to this thread.
Before I begin - please ask yourselves why it is in eBay's interest to restrict visibility. The more visibility your items get the more likely they are to sell and the more money we make. Only showing items to 10 people in Essex is not going to achieve this and is therefore not a very sensible thing for us to do.
Here goes
1) There is no racial discrimination - ANYONE from ANYWHERE can list on ANY eBay site.
However it is the default view that users see only those items listed on ebay.co.uk The seller has paid to list on this one site and in doing so is given exposure to users who access this site.
Additionally, if the user so chooses, they may elect to see all items from the world that offer shipping to the user. It doesn't matter if this item is from France, or Germany or Australia or any of the other 20 eBay sites. It also doesn't matter what language the listing is in.
I think you will find that this is a much more open system than other online sites - try finding items from Amazon US on Amazon UK!
2) We do not have out-of-date servers where we put peoples listings. Occassionally one of our many servers will not be updated. As a result it is possible that your listing may only exist on a proportion of our servers. Given server access is totally random and not geographically driven it does explain why refresh sometimes pulls back a different number of items. However please note that this is rare and if it does happy it is in the region of 99% see all, 1% see some so your listings will be on the up-to-date server and not on the out-of-date server.
3) angels-part if you really believe we are infringing NAFTA and EEC treaties please make a legal representation as I know very little about the nuances of the law and ranting at me about it isn't going to achieve anything except waste your time.
George
l..o..l..a (0 ) 06-12-07 14:29 GMT 707 of 709
George, yu've probably gone now and I'm really regretting not reading this thread earlier.
You say:Additionally, free trade refers to the ability of anyone to sell without discriminatory obstacle. Well anyone can signup to eBay and list and their item will be shown in search, in exactly the same way as if the next guy came along and listed an identical item. I see no discriminatory obstacle there.
Well, George, I have to disagree. As an Irish seller I am discriminated against. First of all I lost the visibility in February. The UK sellers in the same category re-gained it in October and have cross vis. with dot com.
Even if I list on UK I don't have the same visibility because my items are in Ireland. Even when I pay the same fee as a UK seller to list on UK, I don't get the same visibility.
So, tell me this is not discrimination.
And I won't believe you.........
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